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Post by dorn on Mar 20, 2019 4:34:55 GMT -6
Congratulation Balsa Construction for awarding HMS Indomitable
Runner up was Eris design. Both designs Royal Navy consider as excellent designs and their protection are considered as equal however the difference was with propolsion system. 7M difference was quite a lot however battlecruiser will need to achieve fast sustained speed and Royal Navy has some doubts that coal firing with engines tuned for max. speed could achieve that. Both designs were preferred over others because their overall good vertical protection that could help ship sustain fast speed even under heavy fire. Royal Navy would probably accept coal firing for battleship at this stage of technology but for battlecruiser oil-fired propulsion is considered better choice when engines are tuned for maximal speed.
Relating to other designs: Invincible - Royal Navy deems 27 knots as not high advantage over 26 with the role proposed for battlecruiser as the fastest armoured cruisers are about 24 knots and her protection was slightly inferior. Eos - She was closed to the first 2 designs and was discarded only to have inferior protection (even sligthly) to both designs.
Variant C and D (BIW) - their better turret protection was not considered as sufficient to other design disadvantages as speed, horizontal and vertical protection G1B - their belt armour and turret armour were inferior by 2" which is high and ship have only 1 knot speed advantage G2B - 6x14" guns is considered as superior to 4x12" guns with crossdeck fire.
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Post by dorn on Mar 20, 2019 7:18:11 GMT -6
End of calm days
12/1905 – HMS Indomitable laid down by Balsa Construction 12/1905 – Prime Minister decided to back up our ally in Balkans as was threated by a neighbour 1/1906 – Italy has commissioned La Spezia protected cruiser (3900 tons, 24 knots, 12x4“ guns, 2.5“ sloped deck armour) 2/1906 – we acquire information about US protected cruiser of De Moines class (4300 tons, 23 knots, 10x4“ shielded guns, 2.5“ sloped deck, 1.5“ deck armour) 3/1906 – We invented Torpedo protection 4/1906 – Mechanical fire control computer invented 4/1906 – Japan has commissioned protected cruiser Chiyoda (4900 tons, 25 knots, 10x5“ guns, 1“ sloped deck armour) 4/1906 – USA has laid down another battleship of North Dakota class (18.200 tons) 4/1906 – HMS Centaur protected cruiser is commissioned 4/1906 – The Government is concerned about tensions leading to war and ask First Lord for advice. He strongly recommended that our Navy needs to be prepared for war and increase spending if we want peace. 5/1906 – USA has laid down armoured cruiser of Huntington class (13.300 tons) 5/1906 – We have completed new dock that allow us build ships up to 22000 tons 5/1906 – Admiralty refused offer for another Dreadnoght class battleship by Buchanan Iron Works with 10 % discount. Admiralty was willing to negotiate 10 % discount for battleship of new design but did not make with Buchanan Iron Works any agreement. 5/1906 – First Lord adviced Prime Minister to make some unimportant comprimises with Germany to lower tension. 6/1906 – Economizer invented 6/1906 – Improved hoists invented 6/1906 – Germany has laid down semi-dreadnought of Schwaben class (17.400 tons) 6/1906 – France has commissioned protected cruisers Troude and Cosmao of Cosmao class (4700 tons, 25 knot, 10x5“, 1“ sloped deck armour) 6/1906 – new training applied. Admiralty report shows crew are much proficient in gunnery 6/1906 – Increased industrialization improves wealth of our nation 7/1906 – Somebody in Admiralty put an idea to superimposed aft X turret 7/1906 – Invented new 8“ guns. It was found that they are excellent design 7/1906 – France has commisssioned protected cruisers Lalande and Isly of Isly class (4500 tons, 24 knots, 10x5“ guns, 2“ sloped deck) 7/1906 – As tension rose with USA, Admiralty decided to dispatch modern protected cruisers Apollo, Ares, armoured cruiser Athena to the Caribbean, protected cruiser Argonaut to Southeast Asia, armoured cruiser Niobe and protected cruiser Leander to North America East Coast 7/1906 – Admiralty decided to invest into basis in Kingston and Nassau 7/1906 – During maneuvres of our fleet, one of our ships opened fire on a fishing boat from Russia, sinking the boat and killing several fisherman. We announce statement that the boat was in restricted area and suffered the consequences 8/1906 – Improved anneling invented 8/1906 – Contra rotating propellers invented 8/1906 – TNT bursting charges invented 8/1906 – HMS Chimera is commissioned (Centaur class protected cruiser) 8/1906 – Russia has commissioned protected cruiser Boyarin (Novik class, 5000 tons, 24 knots, 10x5“ guns, 2“ sloped deck armour) 8/1906 – our top spy has managed to get hold of the blueprints for the new US battleship of Illinios class (18200 tons, 20 knots, 6x12“, 14x6“ guns, 12“ belt, 1.5“ deck, 11“ turret, 10“ CT and 5“ battery armour. Our analysis in Admiralty show some concerns that US ship is quite well designed and some Admirals point out that our 33 % highere broadside could not stand better armoured American ship 9/1906 – Improved AP cap invented 9/1906 – One of our destroyer captains wrote essey about tactical performance of destroyers and describe how effectively destroyers could screen battleships. It open a lot of discussion at Admiralty 9/1906 – Admiralty decided to increase dock to be able to build 24.000 tons battleship 9/1906 – our top spy has managed to get hold of the blueprints for the new US protected cruiser of Galveston class (4300 tons, 23 knots, 10x4“ with 5x4“ broadside, 2“ sloped deck and 1.5“ deck armour, 2“ gun shields, 4“ conning tower armour, 2 submerged torpedo tubes) 10/1906 – Russia has commissioned protected cruiser Novik 10/1906 – A new hawkish Government wants to rise armament expenditure and decides to consult it with First Lord. First Lord completely agree as he expect war with USA. 11/1906 – USA protested about our increase naval presence in the Caribbean which Prime Minister refused to comply. Small incident occured and USA has declared war on Great Britain 11/1906 – Raid on Panama As war started Admiralty quickly put in motion plan to attacking Panama with cruisers HMS Ajax and HMS Apollo while HMS Ares should be covering force. The mission was planned that both ships will start attacking port installations on sunrise. Rain through the night helped both cruisers hide however they were surprised by unexpected fast reaction of American divison of Raleigh class protected cruiser with 2 destroyers. First hit achieved by American cruiser pierced Ajax sloped deck and damaged machinery. After that both British cruisers shells US division with heavy fire force them to disengage north. Both cruisers heavily damage port installations and than hunt several merchants trying to escape. Meantime US division tries again thwart British plans however this time both cruisers were ready and quickly damaged US cruiser. After some change of fire US cruiser and one of the destroyers sunk. With mission accomplished cruisers set course to home port but were able intercepted minesweeper during voyage and sunk her. 11/1906 - USA commissioned protected cruiser Galveston
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Post by dorn on Mar 20, 2019 8:55:47 GMT -6
Royal Navy vs. United States Navy
Battleships: 4 (+1) vs. 7 (+2)
Battlecruisers: (+1) vs. 0
Armoured cruisers: 4 vs. 1 (+1)
Protected cruisers: 20 vs. 11 (+2)
Destroyers: 23 vs. 17 Minesweepers: 12 vs. 2
Submarines: 6 vs. 3 (+3)
ALLOCATION of NAVIES by areas:
Nothern Europe:
- UK: 3 B (Rodney class), 2 AC (Deimos and Diadem class), 3 CL (2 Centaur and 1 Amphion class), 21 DD (9 Derwent and 12 Rother class) - USA: 1 B, 1 AC, 1 CL, 1 DD
North American East coast: - UK: 1 CA (Diadem class), 3 CL (1 Arethusa, 2 Comus class) - USA: 5 B, 1 CL, 4 DD
The Caribbean: - UK: 1 CA (Athena class), 3 CL (Amphion class)
- USA: 1 B, 1 CL, 7 DD
Southeast Asia: - UK: 3 CL (2 Comus, 1 Amphion class)
- USA: 5 CL
Indian Ocean: - UK: 2 CL (Comus class)
- USA: 2 CL, 1 DD
North Amercican West Coast: - USA: 1 CL
The Mediterranean: - UK: 1 B (Rodney class), 2 CL (1 Arethusa, 1 Comus class), 2 DD (Derwent class)
West Africa, Northeast Asia: - UK: 2 CL (Comus class)
Estimated commissioning: HMS Dreadnought - 6/1907 HMS Indomitable - 3/1908 North Dakota class battleship - end of 1907 North Dakota class battleship - autumn 1908 Huntington class armoured cruiser - spring 1908 Galveston class protected cruiser - any moment
Reno class protected cruiser - 1907
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Post by yemo on Mar 20, 2019 10:23:38 GMT -6
Finally another war! ;-) Though the US seems to power up, building 2 BBs and 1 heavy AC while one british B is tied up in the med. The new US BBs have quite good belt armour, seems as if the Dreadnought race has started. Maybe Athena can hunt down a NewYork class on the East Coast/Caribbean, since she is not the fastest against CLs anyway.
Interesting about the oil vs coal firing for BBs vs BCs. What would be your preferences for other ship classes with regard to early oil firing?
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Post by dorn on Mar 20, 2019 11:34:40 GMT -6
Finally another war! ;-) Though the US seems to power up, building 2 BBs and 1 heavy AC while one british B is tied up in the med. The new US BBs have quite good belt armour, seems as if the Dreadnought race has started. Maybe Athena can hunt down a NewYork class on the East Coast/Caribbean, since she is not the fastest against CLs anyway. Interesting about the oil vs coal firing for BBs vs BCs. What would be your preferences for other ship classes with regard to early oil firing? Yes. :-) I would write some strategy possibilites, you can comment. US dreadnoughts are more efficient but I do not worry, Dreadnought has 33 % higher firepower and Indomitable is quite beter, faster, her armour protection is better even 1" of main belt less but mostly she has 14" guns. And the armoured cruiser will be certainly not faster and powerful than Indomitable. It is even probable that Deimos or Athena could handle this cruiser.
Oil vs. coal firing is difficult. As I told you if you need speed, oil firing is better, especially mix of engines for speed and coal firing means you cannot have max. speed for long time. For battleship it could be better coal as it have additional protection and max. speed is not nessesary needed for long time.
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Post by dorn on Mar 20, 2019 13:04:11 GMT -6
Strategy in war with USA
After some discussion between RN Admirals there were written some possible strategies:
1. Trade protection strategy - focus on hunting down american protected and armoured cruisers - after lowering threat from american cruisers and after HMS Dreadnought is commisioned transfer of Diadem class armoured cruisers to Mediterranean to free HMS Collingwood - blockade US coast
operational plan 11/1906: - HMS Leander and HMS Niobe to Southeast Asia - HMS Ajax and HMS Ares to Southeast Asia - HMS Athena to the Caribbean
Evaluation:
+ low risk - long term strategy
2. Weak point strategy - transfer best armoured cruisers of Deimos and Centaur class to North American East coast and start raiding - hunt enemy cruisers down - sent battleships with HMS Athena to the Caribbean to try to make advantage situation - after weakening enemy and taken some possessions start blockade of North American East coast
operational plan 11/1906: - HMS Rodney, HMS Collingwood, HMS Empress of India, HMS Athena with 18 destroyers to the Caribbean - HMS Diadem to Southeast Asia - HMS Ares and HMS Ajax to Southeast Asia
Evaluation: +medium risk -long term strategy with higher possible gains
3. Thrusting strategy - transfer all available vessels to North American East Coast - start blockade
opearational plan 11/1906: - transfer to Diadem and Niobe to free HMS Collingwood - transfer all available ships from Northern Europe to North America East coast - HMS Ares, HMS Ajax, HMS Athena sent to North America East coast - HMS Argonaut sent to North America East coast - HMS Collingwood with escort sent to North America East coast
Evaluation: +very risky - could end war relatively quickly
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Post by dorn on Mar 20, 2019 13:47:03 GMT -6
Discussion about construction war program
Funds: 17 M Monthly balance: 0.6M After 7 months expeced 2.6M per month more (HMS Dreadnought will be commisioned)
There are 2 main voices in Admiralty:
1. construction of battleship
+ HMS Dreadnought is already absolute
+ to achieve parity in battleships
- could started no earlier than 2 months to have some reserve - will take 2.5 years to be ready for the fleet
2. construction of protected cruisers + Comus class starts to be absolute + Arethusa class starts to be quite expensive and slow + Amphion class starts to be quite expensive and slow - RN has a lot of cruisers - RN need another capital ship
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Post by MateDow on Mar 20, 2019 20:52:05 GMT -6
Discussion about construction war program
Funds: 17 M Monthly balance: 0.6M After 7 months expeced 2.6M per month more (HMS Dreadnought will be commisioned) There are 2 main voices in Admiralty:
1. construction of battleship
Although a new battleship or battlecruiser would be nice, I doubt that she would be completed in time to participate. I think that cruisers will be your best bet as you will lose some in the fighting and there is a chance that they could effect your current war. Just having replacements in the pipeline is always a good idea.
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Post by yemo on Mar 21, 2019 2:16:11 GMT -6
Imho the dreadnought race is on and thus another battleship is needed. dorn With US having laid down another BB in 4/1906, they should have 2 BBs building, which would change the battleship numbers to 4(+1) vs 7(+2). That is quite a lead even when adjusted for the bad NewYorks. A new BB might come too late for the war, but what if the war drags on? And France and Italy (from the december 1905 save) are already building bigger BBs than Dreadnought, and even Japan is building two BBs to britains one. The cruiser situation is imho more manageable for the moment, compared to US and other countries. From december 1905 perspective, a blockade could be hard and may invite a counter blockade. Imho some risks have to be taken (also to make it interesting). I favor hunting down cruisers and the NewYork class Bs, perhaps snatching up a colony in the caribbean if the opportunity arises and it does not leave home waters exposed.
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Post by dorn on Mar 21, 2019 2:44:23 GMT -6
Intelligence report about technology
Machinery: UK is probably ahead as USA have only technology of steam turbines, but probably no Economizer or Oil firing
Armour development: unknown Hull construction: UK is probably ahead as with longitudial framing Fire control: UK is probably ahead with Mechanical fire control computer Subdivision and damage control: unkown Turrets and gun mountings: UK Is probably ahead as there is no information USA have invented Improved hoist Ship design: USA have knowledge of superimposed B turrets, but intelligence cannot confirm if USA has knowledge to build a ship with 8 guns broadside. Intelligence confirms no such a ship is under construction AP projectiles: equal knowledge Light forces: intelligence confirmed that USA has 700 tons destroyers Torpedo technology: unkown Submarines: equal knowledge however intelligence reported that submarines under construction is better design than ours ASW technology: USA is ahead of us focusing on ASW warfare Explosive shells: equal knowledge Fleet tactics: very good similar to ours Guns: 13" guns vs. our 14" guns
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Post by dorn on Mar 21, 2019 3:22:32 GMT -6
I forgot to mention that except 2 american cruisers under construction no other nation is building any cruiser.
Germany: no cruiser over 22 knots France: 2 cruisers 24 knots but only 5" guns and 2" sloped deck, 2 cruisers 25 knots but only 5" guns and 1" sloped deck Russia: 2 cruisers 24 knots, 5" guns and 2" sloped deck USA: see comparison RN and USN Japan: 1 cruiser 25 knots, 5" guns, 1" sloped deck Italy: 1 cruiser 25 knots, 4" guns, 2.5" sloped deck note: only cruisers faster than 22! knots are mentioned in detail
For comparison UK (see details in comparison RN and USN):
2 cruisers 27 knots 7 cruisers 23 knots 11 colonial cruisers 22 knots
There is possibility to rebuilt some of colonial cruisers Comus class to 24 knots for just 3.2M which could make them faster than large majority of foreign cruisers. New cruiser with such configuration would costs 8.4M (coal fired, normal engine priority). With 25 knots, coal fired, engines tuned for speed would costs 8.7M.
Rebuilding Arethusa and Amphion class is non-economical.
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Post by yemo on Mar 21, 2019 3:51:45 GMT -6
But a rebuild would take time as well, and the war is already here. Another more modern BB with better belt armour and 14 inch guns would imho make much more sense.
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Post by dorn on Mar 21, 2019 7:40:21 GMT -6
Note on technological advance
Centaur class designed in 10/1904 costs 16.925 Same design (only tonnage lower as effect of technology advance) in 10/1906 after 2 years would cost 14.096 so almost 3M less, it is 17% less. For 16.892 it is possible to build same cruiser with speed of 28 knots.
Just how quick even cruisers are going to be outdated.
This is the reason why I do not like to invest large amount of money to single cruiser and prefer cheaper designs. Supercruisers usually do not have added value the first years and later they become outdated just a little longer.
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Post by aeson on Mar 21, 2019 8:41:52 GMT -6
I am inclined to suggest building another battleship, though depending on the cost of the battleship it might be possible to squeeze one midsize or a couple small cruisers into the construction program as well.
I don't think that it's worth investing in a reconstruction of the Comus class except possibly as a peacetime alternative to building a more modern 2,400t colonial cruiser. 22 knots is adequate for what we need them to do right now, it doesn't make much sense to take them out of service while we're fighting the USA since we need pretty much every ship we can lay hands on if we want to blockade the US or challenge its fleets in American waters, and for the money it'd take to rebuild a reasonable number of them we could instead constructing modern fast second class cruisers along the lines of Centaur, which would then allow us to begin shifting the Arethusa- and Amphion-class cruisers into the colonial squadrons.
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Post by dorn on Mar 21, 2019 10:23:26 GMT -6
I agree with aeson and yemo but with some adjustment, that capital ship would be best. I do not have money yet so I will wait couple of turns and that evaluate what would be best: a) new class of battleship b) new class of battlecruiser c) another Indomitable class battlecruiser to save funds
I decided to pursue Weak point strategy as I think it will use all ships of the fleet and push Americans
- transfer best armoured cruisers of Deimos and Centaur class to North American East coast and start raiding - hunt enemy cruisers down - sent battleships with HMS Athena to the Caribbean to try to make advantage situation - after weakening enemy and taken some possessions start blockade of North American East coast
operational plan 11/1906: - HMS Rodney, HMS Collingwood, HMS Empress of India, HMS Athena with 18 destroyers to the Caribbean - HMS Diadem to Southeast Asia - HMS Ares and HMS Ajax to Southeast Asia
Evaluation: +medium risk -long term strategy with higher possible gains
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