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Post by yemo on May 16, 2019 13:21:59 GMT -6
Many people have voices their discontent with the 1920 start in various threads. It would be great if issues/suggestions and possible workarounds could be concentrated in one place.
The legacy fleet composition seems to be a major factor. What is it that bothers you the most about it for the 1920 start? Cramped accomodations in general? Or that there are too many ships having them? Maybe especially the cramped accomodations on the many DDs? Or having them on BCs?
edit:
"MOD" - better Legacy Fleet for a 1920 start in the Demo (should work in full game as well)
I combed through the design files and weeded out some, but not all, offending "short range" and "cramped accomodation" designs. That should make the 1920 start less troublesome without removing the excitement of dealing with an inherited fleet. eg both 600 ton designs had cramped accomodations and I left both of them in, but I removed many bigger designs with cramped accomodations.
Of course it only works when you generate a new game. Naturally the design files will be missing from the game even when you play from 1900 onwards. So the AI will struggle with fewer bad designs (but will also have somewhat fewer designs to choose from).
How to:
1. You have to backup your IDes folder (which is within your Data folder). 2. Then you delete your IDes folder.
3. You extract the IDes folder which is within the following zip archive into the place where your old IDes folder was (so within your Data folder).
For people who forgot to backup their IDes folder:
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Post by dougphresh on May 16, 2019 13:29:22 GMT -6
I think the 1920 fleet is just not what Japan of the UK would be expected to have. Lots of pre-dreadnoughts, short range, cramped accommodations. DDs built over weight. 11 and 12in being the most common in BBs and BCs.
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Post by Blothorn on May 16, 2019 13:46:32 GMT -6
I don't think old ships are a problem; it gives us the option of scrapping/rebuilding/converting them. Historically, a sizable portion of navies have typically been quite old, outside of specific circumstances such as the WNT-inspired selloff of excess capital tonnage.
The only major problems I have seen are the excess use of short range/cramped accommodation by countries with extensive foreign holdings. Neither Japan nor the UK has much of any use for ships with either shortcoming--both navies are dominant in their home region and thus are most likely to be fighting overseas. At the extreme, I think they could make do with about 1/3 of their ships of a class having those attributes, as that is about the minimum I would leave in my home region.
I think the simplest approach would just be blacklisting those options in all legacy fleet builds, with the next step of sophistication being whitelisting them for countries with heavily contested home regions (Russia, Germany) or countries without valuable foreign holdings.
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Post by dorn on May 16, 2019 14:36:54 GMT -6
Just for information about different fleets in 1920 (dreadnoughts and battlecruisers) without considering decommission.:
Great Britain: 33 dreadnoughts - 10 dreadnoughts with 12" guns - 12 drenoughts with 13.5" guns - 1 dreadnought with 14" guns - 10 dreadnoughts with 15" guns 9 battlecruisers -
- 4 battlecruisers with 12" guns - 3 battlecruisers with 13.5" guns - 2 battlecruisers with 15" guns
TOTAL 42 capital ships - 14 with 12" guns - 33%
- 16 with 13.5" or 14" guns - 38 %
- 12 with 15" guns - 29 %
Compare to very large fleet about 35 dreadnoughts and battlecruisers in game. From that about 66 % are 12" guns minx.!
USA: - 8 dreadnoughts with 12" guns - 8 dreadnoughts with 14" guns (additional 2 under construction, additional 3 with 16" guns under construction)
Compare to very large fleet about 35 dreadnoughts and battlecruisers in game. USA has even with historical budget much larger fleet!
Japan - 1 dreadnought with 12" guns - 4 dreadnoughts with 14" guns (2 dreadnoughts with 16" guns under construction)
- 4 battlecruisers with 14" guns
Compare to very large fleet about 22 dreadnoughts and battlecruisers.
Other nations - it is very similar. They have much larger fleet than historically. SO compare to history all nations has large fleet except UK which has worse fleet than history and by very large margin.
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saden
New Member
Posts: 42 
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Post by saden on May 16, 2019 14:42:58 GMT -6
I don't understand. Why not just use the Historical fleet and remove ships according to user selected fleet size? Seems it would solve most of these issues.
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Post by yemo on May 16, 2019 14:50:59 GMT -6
"MOD" - better Legacy Fleet for a 1920 start in the Demo (should work in full game as well)I combed through the design files and weeded out some, but not all, offending "short range" and "cramped accomodation" designs. That should make the 1920 start less troublesome without removing the excitement of dealing with an inherited fleet. eg both 600 ton designs had cramped accomodations and I left both of them in, but I removed many bigger designs with cramped accomodations. Of course it only works when you generate a new game. Naturally the design files will be missing from the game even when you play from 1900 onwards. So the AI will struggle with fewer bad designs (but will also have somewhat fewer designs to choose from). How to:1. You have to backup your IDes folder (which is within your Data folder). 2. Then you delete your IDes folder. 3. You extract the IDes folder which is within the following zip archive into the place where your old IDes folder was (so within your Data folder).
files also linked in the original post above
For people who forgot to backup their IDes folder: IDes-backup-2019-05-16.zip (521.52 KB)
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Post by yemo on May 16, 2019 15:01:53 GMT -6
dornYeah, the fleets are extremely "top-heavy". A lot of capital ships and very few destroyers. While testing, it seemed that the number of designs in a category has an influence on the quantity of ships generated for that category. So only deleting horrible destroyer designs may make the fleet even more top heavy. I wonder what happens if I put the same DD design ten times into the IDes folder. Will have to test that.
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Post by dorn on May 16, 2019 15:07:21 GMT -6
dorn Yeah, the fleets are extremely "top-heavy". A lot of capital ships and very few destroyers. While testing, it seemed that the number of designs in a category has an influence on the quantity of ships generated for that category. So only deleting horrible destroyer designs may make the fleet even more top heavy. I wonder what happens if I put the same DD design ten times into the IDes folder. Will have to test that. Could you desribe it more? What designs are used for that? Are they only design up to 1925 or all designs to 1950? |
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Post by yemo on May 16, 2019 15:17:22 GMT -6
Just tested, number of design files does not seem to have an effect (I made 20 more copies of a destroyer design) on number of destroyers, was just randomness. As long as you are not too rigorous, eg by deleting all pre-dreads.
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Post by yemo on May 16, 2019 15:21:17 GMT -6
dorn Yeah, the fleets are extremely "top-heavy". A lot of capital ships and very few destroyers. While testing, it seemed that the number of designs in a category has an influence on the quantity of ships generated for that category. So only deleting horrible destroyer designs may make the fleet even more top heavy. I wonder what happens if I put the same DD design ten times into the IDes folder. Will have to test that. Could you desribe it more? What designs are used for that? Are they only design up to 1925 or all designs to 1950? The legacy fleet generation seems to use design files from 1900 to 1914? Not sure on the exact cut off date, I just vaguely remember deleting a 1914 design. |
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Post by dougphresh on May 16, 2019 20:12:03 GMT -6
It would be best to look at the real fleets and scale up or down, I think.
As many have mentioned the ratio of light surface combatants to capital ships is skewed. Too many BCs, too few CLs.
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