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Post by swedewolf on May 22, 2019 6:53:47 GMT -6
Its maj 1917 Ive been at ear with France and GB for 23 month. During this time I never got to use my BBs. GB got it once but I didnt see it in battle. Most of my battles have been 2-3 CA or Cls with one to 4 DDs. Ive been blockaed in US west by this number of ships (1 BB, 1 BC, 5 CA, 15 Cl, 7 AMC and 2 DD for the Britts. 4 AMC for the French. I got 3 BB 3 B 3 CA 7 Cl 11 AMC 6 DD 11 KE. I know ive blockaded when I being hindered to move ships away to other areas because of the Blockade.
So, what makes me blockaded and how can I tell? Why do I neve have big battles? I like to try out my BBs ? :/ I even got a B designed with 4 scout planes but I never use them, why I wonder. Also got airships and floatplanes in US east bet cant order them. What do I do wrong?
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Post by bcoopactual on May 23, 2019 9:40:25 GMT -6
Blockades happen when the blockading side has 110% or more of the naval strength of the defending side in the Ocean Area where the Defender's main home area is. The strength is calculated by number of ships weighted by type (I forget the exact numbers from RTW1 but it was something like each BB/BC=10, B=8, ACR=5, CL=3 and DD=1). The size and capabilities of the individual ships doesn't matter so a small BB counts the same for blockade purposes as a large BB.
That number is then modified by a multiplier from .8 to 1.2 depending on the country to account for geographic advantage/disadvantage. It's easier to blockade Russia (Gulf of Finland) and Austria-Hungary (Strait of Otranto) than the entire British Isles for example. Since the British had the biggest modifier (1.2) they always have the advantage when it comes to enforcing or resisting blockades.
In your case since you are fighting two nations the combined value of their fleet in your home waters will count against you.
I haven't seen it in RTW2 yet but usually there is the word BLOCKADED next to your flag and the game date on the main screen. There will be a red B in the map tab for the affected ocean area and you will see a note in the events window at the end of the turn stating that the blockading nation received X number of points for the blockade.
No idea about the planes as I haven't played a game that far yet. I'm mostly just screwing around checking out the new features waiting for the first update to be posted.
You can't move ships out of the area (except for raiders) but you can move ships into the area so you may have to condense your fleet from other areas to break the blockade. Or take the peace option when the next time the negotiations event fires. If you can't break the blockade it will eventually cause your Government to collapse with catastrophic results.
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Post by alsadius on May 23, 2019 10:35:36 GMT -6
I haven't seen it in RTW2 yet but usually there is the word BLOCKADED next to your flag and the game date on the main screen. There will be a red B in the map tab for the affected ocean area and you will see a note in the events window at the end of the turn stating that the blockading nation received X number of points for the blockade. Not especially relevant to the OP, but I'm curious - is there a way to tell if another nation is blockaded?
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Post by bcoopactual on May 23, 2019 10:43:13 GMT -6
If I recall it's the pretty much the same minus the BLOCKADED on the main screen. There should be a red B in the home Ocean Area for the affected nation and there will be a note in the messages log indicating VP being awarded for blockading the enemy.
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Post by bobsenjr on May 23, 2019 10:43:33 GMT -6
If it is your enemy, you should start seeing events saying that their people are suffering from the effects of the blockade.
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Post by tortugapower on May 23, 2019 10:59:25 GMT -6
Blockades happen when the blockading side has 110% or more of the naval strength of the defending side in the Ocean Area where the Defender's main home area is. Is this really still the case? 10% seems to be much too low of a number.
Great Britain authorized their increased spending in 1909 when they predicted Germany would have 13 dreadnoughts, and they would have only 16, and that to them was basically parity. Needing only 15 to blockade seems a bit absurd.
Shouldn't this number be increased?
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Post by dorn on May 23, 2019 11:18:09 GMT -6
Blockades happen when the blockading side has 110% or more of the naval strength of the defending side in the Ocean Area where the Defender's main home area is. Is this really still the case? 10% seems to be much too low of a number.
Great Britain authorized their increased spending in 1909 when they predicted Germany would have 13 dreadnoughts, and they would have only 16, and that to them was basically parity. Needing only 15 to blockade seems a bit absurd.
Shouldn't this number be increased?
I think that in case of UK it was more about having some "reserve" in case something bad can happen. In reality even if Germany had 2 times dreadnoughts they would be still blockaded as fleet of dreadnoughts has very bad power projection. And the blockade was done by light cruisers, dreadnoughts were there only to protect them and protect coast from bombardment.
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Post by bcoopactual on May 23, 2019 11:26:40 GMT -6
Blockades happen when the blockading side has 110% or more of the naval strength of the defending side in the Ocean Area where the Defender's main home area is. Is this really still the case? 10% seems to be much too low of a number.
Great Britain authorized their increased spending in 1909 when they predicted Germany would have 13 dreadnoughts, and they would have only 16, and that to them was basically parity. Needing only 15 to blockade seems a bit absurd.
Shouldn't this number be increased?
Manual still says 110%. I'm not sure what the best answer would be. I know that the system has to be simplified to work in the game. Historically, the Grand Fleet didn't conduct the actual blockade, but the High Seas Fleet wouldn't sortie to clear away the auxiliary cruisers that were actually stopping ships because they knew the Grand Fleet was waiting to meet them if they did. As far as the British being concerned that they didn't have enough of an advantage, they assumed from a numbers standpoint that since the Germans would pick the moment to sortie, their numbers would be maximized (i.e. all ships out of refit and repair) whereas the British would have to assume that some of their ships would be in refit so they had to count only on having their average strength available. The Grand Fleet had more than 110% of the strength of the HSH (Using the in-game numbers, the Grand Fleet had a 161% strength ratio, without the 1.2 multiplier, at Jutland using the ship count from the Jutland order of battle wikipedia page) but maybe testing in the game worked out best with 110%. Not something I could answer. Maybe in a future update they will provide an option for players to adjust the ratio for a blockade to be put into effect. Or perhaps they could provide an event anytime a blockade is in effect asking the blockaded admiral if they want to engage the enemy fleet to break the blockade. That would force a fleet scale battle in that ocean area instead of a randomly generated one.
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Post by Blothorn on May 23, 2019 11:37:34 GMT -6
I would personally like to see the ability to manually assign ships to blockade status, with blockade effectiveness dictated by the number/capability of those ships. If you have ships on blockade status the enemy gets frequent offers of battle against the blockading ships, which will sometimes be met in force by the enemy active fleet; the blockading player can decline to sortie their fleet but can't decline to enter battle with the blockading ships. That way there is a bit more player agency, and you can't be blockaded by a fleet that nevertheless declines most battles.
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Post by dorn on May 23, 2019 11:59:07 GMT -6
I would personally like to see the ability to manually assign ships to blockade status, with blockade effectiveness dictated by the number/capability of those ships. If you have ships on blockade status the enemy gets frequent offers of battle against the blockading ships, which will sometimes be met in force by the enemy active fleet; the blockading player can decline to sortie their fleet but can't decline to enter battle with the blockading ships. That way there is a bit more player agency, and you can't be blockaded by a fleet that nevertheless declines most battles. Issue with blockade is that the main point is not blockade enemy fleet but enemy merchants. Just look at UK blockading Germany in WW1. UK can just sit in ports with their heavy units and Germany could do nothing about it and cannot end blockade.
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Post by Blothorn on May 23, 2019 12:06:14 GMT -6
Germany could do something about the blockade--sortie into the North Sea and sink the auxiliary cruisers maintaining the blockade. They did not do this because the crushing superiority of the Grand Fleet made such operations much closer to Scapa Flow than the German fleet bases would almost certainly have been disastrous.
The problem in RtW is that blockade status is determined purely by numbers, not status--you can decline every battle and still get credit for a blockade. (Although there is a quick and obvious fix not as invasive as my proposal--just cancel blockade status after declining a battle in the home region until the next battle that is not declined, regardless of relative numbers.)
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Post by alsadius on May 23, 2019 12:13:08 GMT -6
I would personally like to see the ability to manually assign ships to blockade status, with blockade effectiveness dictated by the number/capability of those ships. If you have ships on blockade status the enemy gets frequent offers of battle against the blockading ships, which will sometimes be met in force by the enemy active fleet; the blockading player can decline to sortie their fleet but can't decline to enter battle with the blockading ships. That way there is a bit more player agency, and you can't be blockaded by a fleet that nevertheless declines most battles. Issue with blockade is that the main point is not blockade enemy fleet but enemy merchants. Just look at UK blockading Germany in WW1. UK can just sit in ports with their heavy units and Germany could do nothing about it and cannot end blockade. Sure, but that'd still work like Blothorn said. If you're blockaded, you can't trade, but you can engage at will. If you're keeping the blockade up, you need to accept battle whenever it's offered, but your enemy can't trade. That seems like it'd accurately represent how blockading works.
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Post by Fredrik W on May 23, 2019 12:16:21 GMT -6
Germany could do something about the blockade--sortie into the North Sea and sink the auxiliary cruisers maintaining the blockade. They did not do this because the crushing superiority of the Grand Fleet made such operations much closer to Scapa Flow than the German fleet bases would almost certainly have been disastrous. The problem in RtW is that blockade status is determined purely by numbers, not status--you can decline every battle and still get credit for a blockade. (Although there is a quick and obvious fix not as invasive as my proposal--just cancel blockade status after declining a battle in the home region until the next battle that is not declined, regardless of relative numbers.) Good suggestion, will think about that.
Blockade is admittedly somewhat simplified in the game, but there has to be some definition.
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Post by yemo on May 23, 2019 12:17:49 GMT -6
Imho the blockade requirements should be set by an external config file.
UK can more easily blockade Germany than Germany can blockade the UK or France, simply because of geography. Also blockading France or the US at one of their coastlines should only result in a partial blockade. Russia would need to have some time based blockade entries, before and after their railway reaches Murmansk, Vladivostok etc.
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Post by tortugapower on May 23, 2019 12:37:39 GMT -6
Maybe in a future update they will provide an option for players to adjust the ratio for a blockade to be put into effect. Or perhaps they could provide an event anytime a blockade is in effect asking the blockaded admiral if they want to engage the enemy fleet to break the blockade. That would force a fleet scale battle in that ocean area instead of a randomly generated one. A fantastic suggestion, and something I've also thought would be a good solution. If you have a reasonable number of combat ships, you're not blockaded unless you let yourself be. Imho the blockade requirements should be set by an external config file. UK can more easily blockade Germany than Germany can blockade the UK or France, simply because of geography. Also blockading France or the US at one of their coastlines should only result in a partial blockade. Russia would need to have some time based blockade entries, before and after their railway reaches Murmansk, Vladivostok etc. I always like to see settings in external files (more mod-friendly), but this is somewhat built-in to the game, isn't it? Nations have a modifier which dictates how effective a blockade is against them. There are some good ideas floating in this thread, albeit a low priority around release time
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