Ship easily surpassing her design speed

[dorn]

What is your experience?

I have now playthrough that I get this report. I have not checked the class and after 5 years in battle I find that ship max. speed is 31 knots - the same as designed speed. She has no refit till battle.

[aeson]

Jul 17, 2019 15:18:49 GMT -6 dorn said:

What is your experience?

I have now playthrough that I get this report. I have not checked the class and after 5 years in battle I find that ship max. speed is 31 knots - the same as designed speed. She has no refit till battle.

The ships that I recall having had exceed their design speeds on trials have all gotten an extra knot over their design speeds in service.

[vasious]

+1 Knot speed when exceeds
-1 knot speed when struggles

[axe99]

My experience (in RtW1 and RtW2) is as per vasious' - a knot above design when surpassing, a knot below when struggles to make designed speed. That said, I haven't paid attention to what happens post-refit to these ships, and there's always room for bugs (or me misunderstanding things ).

[dorn]

I have found it. I made bad notes, as another class surpassed speed during trials.

It was this battlecruiser. I try to design some hybrid as there is almost nobody with capital ships (small fleet size) to have 2 ships for price one large capital ships and it works for small fleet.

Relating to speed +1/-1 knots after trials, my experience is that any refit of engines cancel that. Both ways. So if you got battleship only at speed of 26 knots because this bad event, it can be reasonable doing later refit to increase speed by 1 knots removing this negative trait and using saved tonnage for deck armour or something else. 27 knots battleships engine refit is not completely cheap but not as expensive as faster battlecruisers.

[polyarmus]

Am I correct, that these events impact all the ships in the class (build to the same design without any alterations)?

I am asking, because Ive had interesting effects of the "struggles to achieve" event while building 4 ships of the same class and all of them were finished in 1906.

All the ships have been build to the same design, however all of them underwent "better fire control available" extension of their build time.

However two of the ships were modified in 1905 (they are R 1905 modification), while the second pair was modified later resulting in R1906.

The interesting part is, that the first two ships of R1905 sub-class have the reduced 22knts speed, while the later two are able to achieve the designed 23 knots.

In other words, it seems that even such minor alteration of the original design of a ship already "on the slipways" is sufficient to cancel the "struggles" tag.

[aeson]

Jul 18, 2019 9:32:36 GMT -6 polyarmus said:

Am I correct, that these events impact all the ships in the class (build to the same design without any alterations)?

Yes.

I am asking, because Ive had interesting effects of the "struggles to achieve" event while building 4 ships of the same class and all of them were finished in 1906.

All the ships have been build to the same design, however all of them underwent "better fire control available" extension of their build time.

However two of the ships were modified in 1905 (they are R 1905 modification), while the second pair was modified later resulting in R1906.

The interesting part is, that the first two ships of R1905 sub-class have the reduced 22knts speed, while the later two are able to achieve the designed 23 knots.

I had a class of four fast battleships laid down in one game which commissioned as four separate refit classes because I developed Advanced Directors while they were building and a combination of post-war budget cuts and economic troubles meant I had to drag the construction times on the last three ships out for quite a bit of time. The lead ship exceeded its design speed and so made 28 knots in service, the second ship of the class failed to make its design speed and so made 26 knots in service, and the other two ships of the class performed as designed and so made 27 knots in service.

[dorn]

Jul 18, 2019 9:40:16 GMT -6 aeson said:

I had a class of four fast battleships laid down in one game which commissioned as four separate refit classes because I developed Advanced Directors while they were building and a combination of post-war budget cuts and economic troubles meant I had to drag the construction times on the last three ships out for quite a bit of time. The lead ship exceeded its design speed and so made 28 knots in service, the second ship of the class failed to make its design speed and so made 26 knots in service, and the other two ships of the class performed as designed and so made 27 knots in service.

How this can happen? I understand that after developing Advanced directors game offers upgrade during construction making another "class". But how you get the 2 others being each new classes as only change of FC can offer change during construction.

[aeson]

Jul 18, 2019 9:55:23 GMT -6 dorn said:

How this can happen? I understand that after developing Advanced directors game offers upgrade during construction making another "class". But how you get the 2 others being each new classes as only change of FC can offer change during construction.

The four ships commissioned in 1927, 1928, 1929, and 1931, and the game gave each one its own refit class. As I said, three of the ships were delayed by post-war budget cuts and economic troubles.

[dorn]

Jul 18, 2019 10:00:19 GMT -6 aeson said:

Jul 18, 2019 9:55:23 GMT -6 dorn said:

How this can happen? I understand that after developing Advanced directors game offers upgrade during construction making another "class". But how you get the 2 others being each new classes as only change of FC can offer change during construction.

The four ships commissioned in 1927, 1928, 1929, and 1931, and the game gave each one its own refit class. As I said, three of the ships were delayed by post-war budget cuts and economic troubles.

I do understand the delay but does it mean that each time you approved installation of advanced directors to next ship AI creates another "class" even if the modification was same?

[dohboy]

If the "class" is modified/completed in a different year then yes. His 4 ships all completed construction in separate years.

[aeson]

Jul 18, 2019 10:32:52 GMT -6 dorn said:

does it mean that each time you approved installation of advanced directors to next ship AI creates another "class" even if the modification was same?

That is what the game did, yes - the ship commissioned in 1927 was of the (R 1927), the ship commissioned in 1928 was of the (R 1928), the ship commissioned in 1929 was of the (R 1929), and the ship commissioned in 1931 was of the (R 1931) refit classes.

If the "class" is modified/completed in a different year then yes. His 4 ships all completed construction in separate years.

It's dependent upon when the modification is approved, not when the ship is completed - it is theoretically possible to have every ship in a class reach the point where the game asks to fit the best available fire control in, approve it, and then have to delay completion for a very long time, and in such a case you'd have the ships of the class commissioning at very different times but all being of the same refit class.

Also, in Rule the Waves v1.34b1 the game would normally use the same refit class even if the later ships of the class only reached the point where the game would give you the option to fit a newer fire control system on a year or two after the earlier ships of the class.

[director]

I think it is possible for 'follow-on' units of a class to struggle to make designed speed if the original is in refit when the new ship commissions.

[mycophobia]

Jul 18, 2019 17:18:41 GMT -6 director said:

I think it is possible for 'follow-on' units of a class to struggle to make designed speed if the original is in refit when the new ship commissions.

 I've had the first ship of a class struggling to meet design speed but the two other subsequently completed ship being able to meet design speed no problem.

EDIT: Totally misread Director, my bad. But I'll leave my observation about the fact that subsequent classes making design speed when the first ship struggles up there for reference.

[aardvark]

Jul 18, 2019 9:40:16 GMT -6 aeson said:

Jul 18, 2019 9:32:36 GMT -6 polyarmus said:

Am I correct, that these events impact all the ships in the class (build to the same design without any alterations)?

Yes.

I am asking, because Ive had interesting effects of the "struggles to achieve" event while building 4 ships of the same class and all of them were finished in 1906.

All the ships have been build to the same design, however all of them underwent "better fire control available" extension of their build time.

However two of the ships were modified in 1905 (they are R 1905 modification), while the second pair was modified later resulting in R1906.

The interesting part is, that the first two ships of R1905 sub-class have the reduced 22knts speed, while the later two are able to achieve the designed 23 knots.

I had a class of four fast battleships laid down in one game which commissioned as four separate refit classes because I developed Advanced Directors while they were building and a combination of post-war budget cuts and economic troubles meant I had to drag the construction times on the last three ships out for quite a bit of time. The lead ship exceeded its design speed and so made 28 knots in service, the second ship of the class failed to make its design speed and so made 26 knots in service, and the other two ships of the class performed as designed and so made 27 knots in service.

There were a number of historical classes (off the top of my head I think the R-class and the Viribus Unitis class) which had the same sort of variance, having been tinkered with during build, or built in different shipyards.

One thing I would like to see the game allow is mid-construction changes -- they would cost time and money, but historically it did happen. (Many of the carrier conversions were to half-built BB and BC.)