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Post by BathTubAdmiral on Jul 26, 2019 17:42:42 GMT -6
A recent battle log from british DD Moy Manual: "An asterisk * after the hit denotes that the hit penetrated armour. Hits that do not penetrate armour will cause no or very slight damage." Hmmmm... but the DD does not have belt armour that protects the engine room? Can't remember seeing this before 1.06, but maybe I just didn't notice ... is this Working As Intended?
And shouldn't a belt penetration into the engine room cause flooding? On my ships it seemingly always does ...
Interesting to see, btw., that the AI is happily, and quite aggressively, launching torps from single tube launchers in 1906 ... while my own DDs didn't launch a single one!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2019 19:06:07 GMT -6
A recent battle log from british DD Moy Manual: "An asterisk * after the hit denotes that the hit penetrated armour. Hits that do not penetrate armour will cause no or very slight damage." Hmmmm... but the DD does not have belt armour that protects the engine room? Can't remember seeing this before 1.06, but maybe I just didn't notice ... is this Working As Intended?
And shouldn't a belt penetration into the engine room cause flooding? On my ships it seemingly always does ...
Interesting to see, btw., that the AI is happily, and quite aggressively, launching torps from single tube launchers in 1906 ... while my own DDs didn't launch a single one!
Final countdown to arrival of guys with answers like: "no, no, it is your fault, you just do it wrong, AI does not have such advantage!" When I wrote that without such log, only with memory of such events, everyone denied that and answered like: "your ships does the same things as AI ships, enemy ships does not ignore damage, your ships can launch torps as much as AI can." I was even called a TROLL by one of the devs. I wonder what will be the answers now, with such evidence. |
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Post by noshurviverse on Jul 26, 2019 21:02:14 GMT -6
Manual: "An asterisk * after the hit denotes that the hit penetrated armour. Hits that do not penetrate armour will cause no or very slight damage."Hmmmm... but the DD does not have belt armour that protects the engine room? Can't remember seeing this before 1.06, but maybe I just didn't notice ... is this Working As Intended?
And shouldn't a belt penetration into the engine room cause flooding? On my ships it seemingly always does ... To the best of my understanding, all rounds have a range of penetration, meaning they can perform both better or worse in any individual impact. HE rounds also have much less penetrating ability as a result of their construction. Thirdly, I believe that all armor values also have a range to represent strong and weak points, although I do not know if that effect takes place with a armor value of 0. In short, the combination of these variables mean that in some cases rounds may fail to penetrate unarmored sections of ship. A lack of flooding isn't common, but could feasibly occur depending on the exact manner of impact. Discussion from what I have seen concluded that AI torpedo launch aggressiveness is highly dependent upon how many tubes total the ship has, no whether they are single tubes. But I'll get into that with the next section. Final countdown to arrival of guys with answers like: "no, no, it is your fault, you just do it wrong, AI does not have such advantage!" When I wrote that without such log, only with memory of such events, everyone denied that and answered like: "your ships does the same things as AI ships, enemy ships does not ignore damage, your ships can launch torps as much as AI can." I was even called a TROLL by one of the devs. I wonder what will be the answers now, with such evidence. Inspired by your quest for evidence, I've decided to put your hypothesis to a short series of tests. Hypothesis: The enemy AI has some form of advantage in determining torpedo launch eligibility. Method of testing: A daytime, good weather fleet exercise is conducted 5 times. Each side consists of a single division of 5 Bainbridge-class DDs (34kts, three single 4" guns and a pair of triple torpedo tubes mounted centerline). For the player force, the AI is given control. At the end of the scenario, the amount of torpedoes fired is counted, along with any unusual circumstances. Known flaws: AI control occasionally turned off, placing the friendly division under player control. It was re-enabled immediately after, but in some cases may have resulted in a slightly different course than the AI originally intended. Crew skill was not perfectly balanced, the friendly force had 3 ships with "Elite" crews and 2 with "Good" crews. The enemy AI had 5 ships with "Elite" crews. Results: •Percentage of torpedoes carried launched by enemy: 58% •Percentage of torpedoes carried launched by friendlies: 56.66...%
Conclusion: Test results show a very minor difference in launches and do not support the hypothesis.
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Post by Blothorn on Jul 26, 2019 22:55:40 GMT -6
And note that 0" armor doesn't translate to "paper"--it translates to "nothing more than usual structural steel". I think it is plausible that a 5" round with a dud fuse could glance off hull plating.
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Post by rimbecano on Jul 26, 2019 23:04:01 GMT -6
And note that 0" armor doesn't translate to "paper"--it translates to "nothing more than usual structural steel". I think it is plausible that a 5" round with a dud fuse could glance off hull plating. Especially as the game does model different penetration depending on how obliquely a round hits. The lack of flooding or floatation damage from the penetrating hit is weird, though. |
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Post by dorn on Jul 26, 2019 23:42:22 GMT -6
And note that 0" armor doesn't translate to "paper"--it translates to "nothing more than usual structural steel". I think it is plausible that a 5" round with a dud fuse could glance off hull plating. Especially as the game does model different penetration depending on how obliquely a round hits. The lack of flooding or floatation damage from the penetrating hit is weird, though. I think it is possible but unlikely if it is hit high enough. |
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Post by mycophobia on Jul 26, 2019 23:45:48 GMT -6
A recent battle log from british DD Moy Manual: "An asterisk * after the hit denotes that the hit penetrated armour. Hits that do not penetrate armour will cause no or very slight damage." Hmmmm... but the DD does not have belt armour that protects the engine room? Can't remember seeing this before 1.06, but maybe I just didn't notice ... is this Working As Intended?
And shouldn't a belt penetration into the engine room cause flooding? On my ships it seemingly always does ...
Interesting to see, btw., that the AI is happily, and quite aggressively, launching torps from single tube launchers in 1906 ... while my own DDs didn't launch a single one!
Final countdown to arrival of guys with answers like: "no, no, it is your fault, you just do it wrong, AI does not have such advantage!" When I wrote that without such log, only with memory of such events, everyone denied that and answered like: "your ships does the same things as AI ships, enemy ships does not ignore damage, your ships can launch torps as much as AI can." I was even called a TROLL by one of the devs. I wonder what will be the answers now, with such evidence. Nothing in the log suggest that the same thing does not happen to the player. The part about AI being more active with their torpedo are not supported by log. You are more than welcome to go look for evidence that support your argument, but trying to force conclusion that does not logically follow from your claim does not help your case. What we see is that HE shell sometime does not "penetrate" areas with no armour. This might be a bug but can happen to the player as well as AI  |
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Post by christian on Jul 30, 2019 4:25:51 GMT -6
this likely means that HE shells dont actually have any penetration at all but only the resulting shrapnell has armor penetration ? dunno but might be
since he shells are not gauranteed to shrapnell it could be that the he shell just cant pen structural steel (this shouldnt be the case)
he shells around 100mm to 152mm will tear through structural steel with very very little problems (its less than 10mm structural steel and has nowhere near the same protection as armor steel or anti frag steel)
i mean 152mm he is known for being able to break armor thicker than 100mm (more like shatter the armor and on a warship with its size shattering dosent do much as you want post armor damage but the point remains)
he shells hitting destroyers should be an assured pen unless the shell is a dud (which is stated in the log if its a dud)
also 127mm or 152mm he shells do an extreme amount of damage to destroyers (3kg he filler with a thick shell wall for shrapnell is no joke)
getting no flooding and no structural damage from a 5 inch he hit is wierd
i can "probably" find some examples of hits to destroyers and damage caused
also id like to see what large caliber he shells do against destroyers 12"+ (i would expect one shot kills considering the he filler and radius of shrapnell and explosion)
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Post by rimbecano on Jul 30, 2019 18:13:03 GMT -6
And shouldn't a belt penetration into the engine room cause flooding? On my ships it seemingly always does ...
I actually recently reported an issue wherein one of my ships took a penetrating hit and detached "due to heavy flooding", but didn't seem to take on any water. |
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