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Post by aardvark on Aug 25, 2019 6:36:50 GMT -6
In my recent British (historical resources but +10% AI bonus), by 1950 all other countries other than the US have almost no ships, but lots of airplanes. (The US has six or so BB/BC, and 23 CV.) It appears that AI build up their airbases and then fully stock them with planes, so that by the time 1950 rolls around countries with lots of colonies have no money for anything other than aircraft maintenance.
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Post by dorn on Aug 25, 2019 8:10:45 GMT -6
In my recent British (historical resources but +10% AI bonus), by 1950 all other countries other than the US have almost no ships, but lots of airplanes. (The US has six or so BB/BC, and 23 CV.) It appears that AI build up their airbases and then fully stock them with planes, so that by the time 1950 rolls around countries with lots of colonies have no money for anything other than aircraft maintenance. What size of fleet are you playing? This is known I have already written about it. AI cannot manage air force well. |
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Post by aardvark on Aug 25, 2019 12:17:57 GMT -6
I've been playing on whatever the largest fleet size is.
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Post by jishmael on Aug 26, 2019 1:17:04 GMT -6
Aside from it being unfun, just having a ton of aircraft with minimal gun based ships sounds like a very viable doctrine to me for 1945 onward.
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Post by dorn on Aug 26, 2019 5:09:35 GMT -6
Aside from it being unfun, just having a ton of aircraft with minimal gun based ships sounds like a very viable doctrine to me for 1945 onward. In bad wheater you need to run for your life. |
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Post by aardvark on Aug 26, 2019 6:51:42 GMT -6
My problem is that the other countries always refuse to fight me in battle since they don't have any ships. The largest non-US Navy has 2BC, 3CL, and 9DD
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Post by jishmael on Aug 26, 2019 10:54:04 GMT -6
Aside from it being unfun, just having a ton of aircraft with minimal gun based ships sounds like a very viable doctrine to me for 1945 onward. In bad wheater you need to run for your life. Can't be good at everything I guess? |
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Post by dorn on Aug 26, 2019 10:57:30 GMT -6
My problem is that the other countries always refuse to fight me in battle since they don't have any ships. The largest non-US Navy has 2BC, 3CL, and 9DD It happened to me with small fleet but never with very large fleet. There is issue with AI but NWS team knows it. |
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Post by tortugapower on Aug 28, 2019 9:34:22 GMT -6
This is a very interesting predicament. The air side of things is not implemented well from a user interface standpoint, which adds to the frustration.
Hopefully it's not too brutal of a suggestion, but you might consider not playing past 1940. The game can give a lot of bang for its buck from the 1925-1940 period, after which I agree that land-based aircraft dominate everything.
In order to get more use out of fleets and such in the late game (without the huge threat from land), we'd need something like a Pacific Theater version of RtW, where land-based aircraft are not as prevalent.
Or maybe there can be some options to limit aircraft in the game setup.
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Post by mobeer on Aug 28, 2019 9:55:55 GMT -6
My problem is that the other countries always refuse to fight me in battle since they don't have any ships. The largest non-US Navy has 2BC, 3CL, and 9DD
Be grateful that the AI refuses battles. As the UK I kept getting battles month after month where UK has a few cruisers and destroyers (blockading the baltic) fighting against Germany's 2-3 KEs and 200-300 land based planes.
This is where the battle generator could be smarter - if blockading an enemy with hundreds of planes then my ships should not need to get close in shore to win a victory, just blockading at a distance should suffice.
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Post by JagdFlanker on Aug 28, 2019 10:18:09 GMT -6
This is a very interesting predicament. The air side of things is not implemented well from a user interface standpoint, which adds to the frustration. Hopefully it's not too brutal of a suggestion, but you might consider not playing past 1940. The game can give a lot of bang for its buck from the 1925-1940 period, after which I agree that land-based aircraft dominate everything. In order to get more use out of fleets and such in the late game (without the huge threat from land), we'd need something like a Pacific Theater version of RtW, where land-based aircraft are not as prevalent. Or maybe there can be some options to limit aircraft in the game setup. i play at 50% tech and it works out perfect in delaying the "air assault" - in general i'l get heavier than air about 1915, CVLs ~1920, CVs ~1925, and purpose built CVs ~1930 - depending on what variable tech throws at me of course
but i did make a suggestion a few months ago that we should be able to adjust the airbase tech air base size - right now it's at 20, but we should be able to make it 12 (which is the 'usual' sqn size anyways) or even enter in a number during new game setup
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Post by dorn on Aug 28, 2019 10:51:14 GMT -6
This is a very interesting predicament. The air side of things is not implemented well from a user interface standpoint, which adds to the frustration. Hopefully it's not too brutal of a suggestion, but you might consider not playing past 1940. The game can give a lot of bang for its buck from the 1925-1940 period, after which I agree that land-based aircraft dominate everything. In order to get more use out of fleets and such in the late game (without the huge threat from land), we'd need something like a Pacific Theater version of RtW, where land-based aircraft are not as prevalent. Or maybe there can be some options to limit aircraft in the game setup. The issue is with strategic AI in this case. It is needed to be adjusted. A other thing is that if you look at WW2 in the Mediterranean, even several hundreds of aircrafts does not mean control of whole area but is enough to make Navy access to certain areas moře difficult. You can limit aircraft development ať start of new game. |
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Post by tortugapower on Aug 29, 2019 14:05:19 GMT -6
but i did make a suggestion a few months ago that we should be able to adjust the airbase tech air base size - right now it's at 20, but we should be able to make it 12 (which is the 'usual' sqn size anyways) or even enter in a number during new game setup
I didn't see this, but I think this is a great bandaid fix for those who want more naval-assets-focused combat in the late game. A other thing is that if you look at WW2 in the Mediterranean, even several hundreds of aircrafts does not mean control of whole area but is enough to make Navy access to certain areas moře difficult. I don't know if this was what you implied, but I inferred from this that the airbases should effectively limit the battle decisions of the naval commanders. I.e., it should be a parameter the battle creator takes into account. Right now, of course I don't know the internals, but it seems like battle location is picked randomly. We were making fun of this earlier with battles of U.S. fleets invading the Baltic (while I'm playing Germany). That is laughable because of the strategic backdrop to want them there (why?) and get them there (how?), but luckily has little effect on the battle itself. However, choosing a battle location by superior (land-based) air force is worse because it effects the battle immensely. If I'm the Royal Navy, I'm not going to fight the Germans outside of Wilhelmshaven in 1940s. There's no reason to do it (or at least very few justifiable ones). |
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Post by dorn on Aug 29, 2019 15:12:00 GMT -6
A other thing is that if you look at WW2 in the Mediterranean, even several hundreds of aircrafts does not mean control of whole area but is enough to make Navy access to certain areas moře difficult. I don't know if this was what you implied, but I inferred from this that the airbases should effectively limit the battle decisions of the naval commanders. I.e., it should be a parameter the battle creator takes into account. Right now, of course I don't know the internals, but it seems like battle location is picked randomly. We were making fun of this earlier with battles of U.S. fleets invading the Baltic (while I'm playing Germany). That is laughable because of the strategic backdrop to want them there (why?) and get them there (how?), but luckily has little effect on the battle itself. However, choosing a battle location by superior (land-based) air force is worse because it effects the battle immensely. If I'm the Royal Navy, I'm not going to fight the Germans outside of Wilhelmshaven in 1940s. There's no reason to do it (or at least very few justifiable ones). For each area there is several scenarious. In each scenario there is definition how far away can start both fleets from starting location (some random) but if I remember well, the distance is not high for period before air power but relatively small when air power is important factor. I think about as some weakness of system as range of airpower limits navy operations but it seems that scenarious has no such way to take into consideration. You can easily see it that your starting location in home areas (yours or your enemy) are good at time airpower is new but very quickly all ranges used by aicrafts from carriers are short, scenarious does not adapt with time and technological progress. It works well before airpower (so till around 1920-1930) but after that this is an issue. Scenarious seems in principle as RTW1 but in RTW1 you do not have airpower which can control area close to airbases. So if you are playing about some Mediterranean power, your start location should be out of range of land air power and you should be tasked with target not deeply in enemy territory but scenarious does not count with it.
If you look at history, you can see that RN did not try to operate heavy units including carriers in Strait of Sicily or very close to Sicily. They did it evacuating Greece and pay the price for that. But as distance rises it becomes possible because fighter cover diminished, organizing large coordinated strikes are more difficult etc. This allow even carrier with much less planes than land air power to operate in such waters.
In RTW it is same in certain way but the issue is you start in position too close that land air power is deadly without having large carrier force. Even if you have large carrier force CAP have difficulties to cover all divisions of the fleet. And in case of some ships remain without air cover and is targetted by land air power the ship has no chance at all.
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Post by bidius on Aug 29, 2019 15:57:12 GMT -6
I Wonder if there's a way to edit out airbases the same way there's a way to edit out submarines? Limiting the size of the airbases to 20 or 40 maximum planes might fix this issue.
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