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Post by dizzy on Sept 19, 2019 17:18:33 GMT -6
Sometime in the late forties, we should be able to start using limited night operations for Carriers. I'd love to see this. Thanks!
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Post by oldpop2000 on Sept 19, 2019 18:12:35 GMT -6
For night ops, you will need radar and very good fighter direction with IFF on board. You will probably need an Air Interception radar for the carrier based fighters, or a search and intercept radar like the APS-6. Bombers can carry an air search set with IFF and beacon functions. Communications in night operations are an absolute must, without it, its useless. You will need a homing beacon. Generally, in the combat area, you do not want to turn on the deck lights or the enemy might see them. It was done at the Mariana's battle but that was a fluke. The best deal is the build and designate a carrier as a night operations carrier with the appropriate training. So, training for night operations will have to be added to the training syllabus.
Note to draw this out too much, but one of the key technical innovations for the air intercept radar is the cavity magnetron. The cavity magnetron made short-wavelength radar possible and this was required for night fighters for carriers. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavity_magnetron. |
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Post by dizzy on Sept 19, 2019 20:10:58 GMT -6
For night ops, you will need radar and very good fighter direction with IFF on board. You will probably need an Air Interception radar for the carrier based fighters, or a search and intercept radar like the APS-6. Bombers can carry an air search set with IFF and beacon functions. Communications in night operations are an absolute must, without it, its useless. You will need a homing beacon. Generally, in the combat area, you do not want to turn on the deck lights or the enemy might see them. It was done at the Mariana's battle but that was a fluke. The best deal is the build and designate a carrier as a night operations carrier with the appropriate training. So, training for night operations will have to be added to the training syllabus.
Note to draw this out too much, but one of the key technical innovations for the air intercept radar is the cavity magnetron. The cavity magnetron made short-wavelength radar possible and this was required for night fighters for carriers. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavity_magnetron. That's some damned cool info, oldpop2000! Learned something about my retinas too. Looks like some technicians learned the hard way.  "In January 1944, U.S. Navy night fighters flew combat missions from a carrier for the first time. Two squadrons, one equipped with Corsairs and the other with Hellcats, were assigned to four carriers. Although they maintained their own individual squadron identities, the first carrier-based Navy fighters were segmented into six-pilot detachments. For 12 consecutive nights these few pilots flew constantly in an intense and successful effort to evolve defensive tactics that would be compatible with fleet procedures." Very cool article about the beginning of carrier night fighting by Colonel William C. Odell, U. S. Air Force (Retired). www.usni.org/magazines/naval-history-magazine/1989/january/development-night-fighters-world-war-ii |
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Post by oldpop2000 on Sept 19, 2019 20:28:01 GMT -6
For night ops, you will need radar and very good fighter direction with IFF on board. You will probably need an Air Interception radar for the carrier based fighters, or a search and intercept radar like the APS-6. Bombers can carry an air search set with IFF and beacon functions. Communications in night operations are an absolute must, without it, its useless. You will need a homing beacon. Generally, in the combat area, you do not want to turn on the deck lights or the enemy might see them. It was done at the Mariana's battle but that was a fluke. The best deal is the build and designate a carrier as a night operations carrier with the appropriate training. So, training for night operations will have to be added to the training syllabus.
Note to draw this out too much, but one of the key technical innovations for the air intercept radar is the cavity magnetron. The cavity magnetron made short-wavelength radar possible and this was required for night fighters for carriers. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavity_magnetron. That's some damned cool info, oldpop2000! Learned something about my retinas too. Looks like some technicians learned the hard way. "In January 1944, U.S. Navy night fighters flew combat missions from a carrier for the first time. Two squadrons, one equipped with Corsairs and the other with Hellcats, were assigned to four carriers. Although they maintained their own individual squadron identities, the first carrier-based Navy fighters were segmented into six-pilot detachments. For 12 consecutive nights these few pilots flew constantly in an intense and successful effort to evolve defensive tactics that would be compatible with fleet procedures." Very cool article about the beginning of carrier night fighting by Colonel William C. Odell, U. S. Air Force (Retired). www.usni.org/magazines/naval-history-magazine/1989/january/development-night-fighters-world-war-iiThanks for the article, I will read that in the morning. Glad the information was enjoyed. I worked on a height finder, the FPS-6B, the used a Raytheon cavity magnetron. No frequency agility in that tube, but good anyway. |
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Post by dizzy on Sept 19, 2019 20:38:38 GMT -6
This?  That's cool. |
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Post by oldpop2000 on Sept 19, 2019 20:55:31 GMT -6
This? That's cool. Yup, that is her. It isn't cool if you have to climb up on the cross bar to adjust the antenna to zero for calibration. You had a headset on, they would use a theodolite and you would adjust her up three degrees and lock her down. I was a little nervous doing it, I don't like that kind of climbing. She was our backup height finder behind the FPS-26. It had a bubble over it held up by two 1000 cycle blowers and one 500 cycle blower. It was made by Goodyear. It used TWT's and reflex Klystrons. That is all I can say about them, sorry. www.radomes.org/museum/equip/fps-26.html |
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Post by dizzy on Sept 19, 2019 21:22:13 GMT -6
That map is really cool. Shows where the threats could come from. Doesn't much look like anyone wanted to mess with Texas, hehe.
So I read where that klystron used 2,000,000 watts! Damn! how'd you keep that equipment cool? What a power hog.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Sept 19, 2019 22:09:06 GMT -6
That map is really cool. Shows where the threats could come from. Doesn't much look like anyone wanted to mess with Texas, hehe. So I read where that klystron used 2,000,000 watts! Damn! how'd you keep that equipment cool? What a power hog. The Klystron transmitted 2 MW, not consumed that amount but she was cooled by an air conditioning system. We had a tech load on our site. It was one of only two sites that used Canadian Orenda Jet Engines for site power. Those were the engines for the Canadian F-86. They consumed fuel at a very high rate, we had fuel trucks coming up on a regular basis and they were so noisy. The site at San Francisco was just over San Jose. My site is the next one up the coast at Point Arena. We were part of Aerospace Defense Command and NORAD. |
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Post by dizzy on Sept 19, 2019 22:13:36 GMT -6
Wow, the power source were jet engines. Power hungary machines. It's amazing the resources we use in the interests of peace.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Sept 19, 2019 22:34:38 GMT -6
Wow, the power source were jet engines. Power hungary machines. It's amazing the resources we use in the interests of peace. They were an experiment, I don't think it worked too well. Here is my site - www.radomes.org/museum/thumbs.php?site=Point+Arena+AFS,+CA&more= The first photo is my barracks. The search is an FPS-24. One photo has the name GATR which stands for Ground to air transmit and receive. They managed the radios. Just a geologic note. The site sat on the San Andreas Fault which was below us to the west. It went out to see just a little north of us. |
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Post by dizzy on Sept 20, 2019 8:59:23 GMT -6
They've come a long way... Now they can stick panels on the side of a ship and pickup one meter sized objects at a hundred miles. Since these 'height finders' you worked on detected aircraft, how low could it 'see'? Could it detect a fighter sized object skimming across the water over the horizon? I'd say no, cuz even tho the waves can bounce, how can you get accurate info on a wave not directly coming back to you?
Ever feel any rumblings sitting on the fault line?
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Post by oldpop2000 on Sept 20, 2019 12:41:46 GMT -6
They've come a long way... Now they can stick panels on the side of a ship and pickup one meter sized objects at a hundred miles. Since these 'height finders' you worked on detected aircraft, how low could it 'see'? Could it detect a fighter sized object skimming across the water over the horizon? I'd say no, cuz even tho the waves can bounce, how can you get accurate info on a wave not directly coming back to you? Ever feel any rumblings sitting on the fault line? Well, no because we had the antenna beam raised about 3 degrees above horizontal zero to avoid clutter from the ridge in front. Russian bombers could not fly too low so we were still capable of registering low flying aircraft. The aircraft had to be detected by the search set, then the operators at Cheyenne Mountain would turn the height finder and get the altitude. As to the earthquakes, there was so much rumbling from the equipment that I never did feel an earthquake in the fifteen months of my tour. It was a controlled tour, you could not stay on that mountain longer than fifteen months. |
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Post by stevethecat on Sept 21, 2019 16:37:35 GMT -6
The First air interception radars were in use in 1941 and by 1942 the Royal Navy were using the radar equipped Beaufighter and Mosquito for all weather and night operations. I can't find any references to night time torpedo attacks (after only a quick search!) but several raids on commerce with rockets, cannons and bombing. Maybe night ops would include fighters and bombers but not torpedo aircraft? With a -x% suitable accuracy modifer perhaps?
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