Basing Capacity

[Kriegsspieler]

So here's a simple question: How is the number calculated for each area that describes how different classes of ships "use up" basing capacity? It is quite maddening that the manual doesn't deem it important to explain this concept, although maybe I have missed that somewhere.  In the original RTW's forum, someone posted a rating for each class of ship which went like this:

DD = 1
CL = 3
CA = 5
B = 8
BC = 11
BB = 13

Those numbers sometimes correspond to what the tooltip says is the basing load for all ships in any given area, but it is not completely consistent.  For example, in my current game, according to the map tooltip the USA has the following ships in Southeast Asia:

3 B, 4 CA, 6 CL, 8 DD (70)

So in this case the numbers of ships do add up to 70, according to the values assigned to each class.

On the other hand, the tooltip says that France has the following ships in the Mediterranean:

12 B, 5 CA, 9 CL, 36 DD (70)

That's clearly not an accurate total!

So what's going on?  Does it matter that I am currently playing as the USA, so my intel on French naval dispositions is less than perfect?  If so, then what should be covered by fog of war is the numbers present in a given area, not the basing load of the supposed fleet, shouldn't it?

Call me confused.

[aeson]

The number in the tool tip isn't base capacity usage, it's fleet strength, and ships in the Reserve Fleet, Mothballs, and possibly some of the other non-Active Fleet stances are ignored when the computer calculates the fleet strength that a power has in the region but does not ignore them when summarizing the number of ships in the area by type for the tool tip.

[Kriegsspieler]

Ok, but that doesn't answer my question about how basing load is calculated. Are those numbers from the original RTW valid (I guess the answer would be "yes"), and if so, what is the basing capacity for classes of ships that weren't in the original?

And by the way, this kind of basic information really should be in the manual, should it ever be updated from its current 0.5 designation.

[aeson]

Oct 1, 2019 15:23:50 GMT -6 Kriegsspieler said:

Ok, but that doesn't answer my question about how basing load is calculated. Are those numbers from the original RTW valid (I guess the answer would be "yes"), and if so, what is the basing capacity for classes of ships that weren't in the original?

None of the numbers you're asking about - be it the number in parenthesis in the sea zone tool tip that summarizes the number of ships present by type or the set of numbers that you found on the RTW1 forum - have anything to do with basing load. They are fleet strength numbers, used by the computer to determine margins of superiority for blockades and invasions.

As to the specific numbers that you have, no, they are not correct in general, though they are close and there are some indications in the manual and on the forums that the values for some ship types (B, CV, CVL, possibly BB and BC) may change over time.

From a 1964 USA save state:

Placing ships into RF or MB status removes their contribution to the number in parenthesis, allowing their contribution to be isolated without having to split them out to separate sea zones. Doing so with the battlecruisers in the Caribbean and on the West Coast, for example, reduces the numbers in parenthesis to 182 and 99, respectively, so three battlecruisers are worth 36 points and therefore each battlecruiser is worth 12.

Analyzing the whole gives:

- AVs and KEs are worthless

- DDs are worth 1 point apiece

- CLs are worth 4 points apiece

- CAs are worth 6 points apiece

- CVLs are worth 7 points apiece

- BCs are worth 12 points apiece

- BBs and CVs are worth 14 points apiece

Looking earlier in the game:

Top box is a 1900 USA save state with auto-generated legacy fleet; bottom is a 1909 Great Britain save state. Other sea zones (and the reduced readiness tests) support 1 point for DDs, 4 points for CLs, 6 points for CAs, 12 points for BCs, and 14 points for BBs, as in the previous dataset. However, the 1909 numbers indicate 8 points for predreadnought battleships (B) while the 1900 numbers indicate 9 points for the same.

Multiply the number of AF ships of a given type in the sea zone by the point value for that type and then sum across the types to come up with the strength value - the number in parenthesis in the sea zone tool tip. Ships in Raider (R), Reserve Fleet (RF), or Mothball (MB) status do not contribute to the fleet strength score shown in parenthesis but are counted by the computer when it summarizes the number of ships in each sea zone (though ships in Foreign Station (FS) and Trade Protection (TP) status do appear to contribute normally), so - at least in home sea zones or in time of war - the sea zone tool tip by itself only gives you sufficient information to compute an upper bound for the number in parenthesis. Also note that the summary of ships present in the sea zone given by the tool tip is not necessarily fully accurate - it was my impression in RTW1 that the tool tip more likely indicated foreign ships present in the sea zone on the previous turn than on the current turn, I don't know of any particular reason for that to have changed, and during wartime you would expect there to be some degree of fog-of-war about at least hostile ship movements.

As to basing load - the base capacity points required to fully support a given ship - that appears to be at least partly tonnage-dependent, as for example a 2,100t CL costs 4 base capacity to support whereas a 4,400t CL costs 5 base capacity to support in 1900.

[Kriegsspieler]

Thanks for walking me through this. At the end of it all, however, I can only conclude that there is no obvious reason why the mechanism for computing basing load should be hidden from the player. This makes the management of large fleets pretty mysterious.

[flying fish]

Perhaps I'm dense, but I've read through all of this and still don't understand how you are supposed to be able to figure out how many ships of which types you can sail to an area, where you are given a basing load number, without going over its capacity. There should be a simple method of handling this. What you are using seems to be unnecessarily complex. In real life situations naval commands are aware of exactly how much capacity they have in the areas they must operate in, they aren't forced to guess, then go "Oh ****! We have too many ships there!" Can you please give us a simple system so that we know how many ships/types we can safely base in an area, please. Otherwise, these numbers are essentially useless to the player.

[hawkeye]

Agreed. This lack of planability (is this a word?) with re. to base-expansion/basing ships has been quite frustrating for me too.

[swang]

As far as I know, the basing requirements and capacities are in relation to the actual tonnage (I think it's in 1000s of tons). The fleet points do not matter.