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Post by dohboy on Oct 12, 2019 11:31:42 GMT -6
All CAP is screwed in this game, but airbase CAP is especially useless. It seems pointless to put fighters on an airbase. I am currently playing Italy in a war against AH. Every battle the bases Taranto and Ancona get pasted. I have 30 fighters at each and set their CAP to maximum at the start of every battle. In the current battle the enemy started bombing unopposed at 127 on the mission clock, I check the status of my fighters and I have 1 readying>flying for CAP at each base, the rest unready and unwilling to do a damned thing. It's not like they get sent out as escorts by the AI. They have one job! WTF?
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Post by oldpop2000 on Oct 12, 2019 11:50:13 GMT -6
All CAP is screwed in this game, but airbase CAP is especially useless. It seems pointless to put fighters on an airbase. I am currently playing Italy in a war against AH. Every battle the bases Taranto and Ancona get pasted. I have 30 fighters at each and set their CAP to maximum at the start of every battle. In the current battle the enemy started bombing unopposed at 127 on the mission clock, I check the status of my fighters and I have 1 readying>flying for CAP at each base, the rest unready and unwilling to do a damned thing. It's not like they get sent out as escorts by the AI. They have one job! WTF? You have to have an early warning system, like radar or observers placed along the coastal areas to observe. The game should have a standing patrol of fighters to protect the base. Also, and the game should provide this, is auxiliary airfields. All main bases had or should have auxiliary airfields for fighters to deploy to. |
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Post by dohboy on Oct 12, 2019 12:11:10 GMT -6
So, the next battle the CAP worked a little better and actually launched about 1/3 of the fighters, but I also noticed some escorts sent out so I guess they do have more than one job. They weren't actually escorting anything though, just out for a cruise.. Meanwhile the base they launched from is getting pummeled.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Oct 12, 2019 13:14:29 GMT -6
Airfields that are not main bases also can be called satellite air fields. They also are dispersal fields.
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Post by dizzy on Oct 13, 2019 2:40:10 GMT -6
Report this in the bug forum.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Oct 13, 2019 9:43:41 GMT -6
It's possible that the game needs research into sound detection devices like the British had along their coast. They were not perfect but in the absence of radar, which might take longer to develop, at least you would have some warning and could scramble the alert fighters. If the game does not put some fighters on alert status, that is a bug. If you have one squadron of fighters, say 18, then some would be assigned to CAP, some would be assigned to escort, but the others would be on five minute alert. some would be in a non-operational status depending on supplies. This is how a fighter base is run operationally. With advanced dispersal bases, four to eight fighters could be deployed to these bases in the morning and used for alert status. Then they would fly back to the main base.
Some other issues are maintenance procedures. Does you air fleet support cannibalizing of aircraft. The IJN did not and Rabaul had aircraft standing around that could have been in the air. Another issue is just non-operational status. The more you fly a plane, the faster you get to the flight hours for standard maintenance. You also will begin to lose aircraft to non-operational losses. Aircraft engines will lose power, hydraulics will leak, wings and structures will crack, gun will need servicing almost daily. The list is long, trust me. You could lose about 1 to 5% of you air wing to maintenance. It's the way things work and still do.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Oct 13, 2019 10:21:36 GMT -6
Here are some representative numbers for Fliegerkorps X in Sicily for January and February 1941.
Long Range Bombers at Catania - 129 assigned - 119 available on that date
Long Range Reconnaissance - 12 assigned -2 available
Twin-Engine Fighters - 34 assigned - 16 available
Dive bombers - 80 assigned - 42 available
Now, one month later, here are the figures
Long Range Bombers - 39 available
Long Range Reconnaissance - 7 available
Twin-engine fighters - 31 available
Dive Bombers - 55 available -
These assigned and available figures are due to non-operational and operational losses. But it illustrates the issues. There are more issues that affect combat operations for aircraft. Geography and weather, aircraft production and the combat characteristics of the aircraft, be it a fighter or bomber or what ever. The lighter the aircraft, the shorter the runway it needs. If you are in very wet weather, planes rust and engines will seize up due to cold weather, you have to heat them up. Can you build enough aircraft and deploy them to compensate for losses. The list is endless. I don't think the game can adequately represent that. Do you.
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Post by dohboy on Oct 14, 2019 6:44:56 GMT -6
Report this in the bug forum. That was my intention, after getting some more information about the issue and some feedback from others. I think the one man team is on overload and too much reporting with too little detail won't help. I also wanted to see what, if anything, happens with CAP in 1.10 before I wasted time on something that could be changed anyway. I've decided there are other things I'd rather do with my free time than beat my head against this wall. I have wasted enough time getting frustrated with this melon. I will try another play-through when 1.10 comes along. |
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Post by dizzy on Oct 14, 2019 7:06:58 GMT -6
Report this in the bug forum. That was my intention, after getting some more information about the issue and some feedback from others. I think the one man team is on overload and too much reporting with too little detail won't help. I also wanted to see what, if anything, happens with CAP in 1.10 before I wasted time on something that could be changed anyway. I've decided there are other things I'd rather do with my free time than beat my head against this wall. I have wasted enough time getting frustrated with this melon. I will try another play-through when 1.10 comes along. This could be solved by adding functionality into the Airstrike panel so we could select our own divisions and assign CAP to squadrons. That squadrons mission is then only CAP over that division. That's the way it SHOULD have been done. williammiller |
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Post by dohboy on Oct 14, 2019 8:21:11 GMT -6
I think that CAP, the airstrike panel, and the aircraft info panel should be combined into one air ops panel. Some fraction of the land based aircraft should also be available for player control in some battles, especially when carriers are not involved. Having no CAP ability when there is a friendly airfield full of fighters 20 miles away is ridiculous. A large part of the Battle of Britain was land based aircraft protecting coastal shipping. Enemy AI should send land based fighters to provide CAP to close units as well.
There should be radar stations to build in coastal fortifications (airfields should come with one). There should also be a radar range circle for air and show enemy aircraft before they get into visual range. You should also have the option to launch a fighter strike against detected aircraft.
Basically I think airpower needs a complete rework.
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Post by dizzy on Oct 14, 2019 8:26:49 GMT -6
Basically I think airpower needs a complete rework. Bingo Edit: They need some ****** on their team that is focused completely on aesthetics and polish. Someone who will look at the problem of UI interface and come up with a slick and intuitive tool that just makes sense and is fun and easy to use. |
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Post by oldpop2000 on Oct 14, 2019 12:08:25 GMT -6
As I have indicated I haven't been playing the game as much as all of you, but I would like to contribute some information. I can't say whether the game is designed to work historically, or is on another path. I can't say. Here is what I am hearing.
Each Italian base had 30 fighters and their cap is at maximum. The enemy has been bombing and only one fighter is on active alert for interception. Is this correct?
The next battle, one third were launched. You also noticed escorts were sent out. But there is nothing to escort.
Well historically, and that is all the sources I can use, not the game information, what you are seeing is normal. Without observers, standing patrols, radar or any functional air defense system with search, acquisition and tracking functions along with fighter direction akin to the British Early Warning system, the detection, tracking and intercepting of incoming enemy aircraft is chaotic at best. You would have to have all planes on flight status or combat air patrols along with possibly some ships out at sea observing the possible paths the enemy aircraft might take. This is also a solution.
Now, if the game is not doing this or allowing your to develop an organized air defense system with detection, acquisition and tracking functions along with fighter direction, then the game has a problem. What needs to be done?
Well, first an early warning radar, sound or simple observer system on land and possibly at sea has to be developed. Second, a fighter direction system with ground to air, air to air radios along with a central control; this would be a plotting room. You would need dispersal fields and an airborne system to identify friendly from enemy aircraft....IFF. Now, once the system has been deployed and personnel trained, you have a working air defense system for protecting your bases. Any less than what I have described, will be simple chaos. The Japanese can attest to that. The German's had the Kammhuber line which was the night air defense system.
I hope this helps the team and all of you. If you need more detail, simply ask me. I worked in NORAD for four years, an air defense network.
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Post by dohboy on Oct 14, 2019 13:49:17 GMT -6
Having all the fighters sitting in an unready state until the scramble alert doesn't work either. Aircraft assigned to CAP should be ready, and spotted if it's an airfield, waiting for the pilot to jump in. The damned Germans would have been back across the channel smoking victory cigars by the time Tommy got his birds (the ones that weren't bombed on the ground before the scramble bell rang) fueled the way this game works.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Oct 14, 2019 14:17:04 GMT -6
Having all the fighters sitting in an unready state until the scramble alert doesn't work either. Aircraft assigned to CAP should be ready, and spotted if it's an airfield, waiting for the pilot to jump in. The damned Germans would have been back across the channel smoking victory cigars by the time Tommy got his birds (the ones that weren't bombed on the ground before the scramble bell rang) fueled the way this game works. Generally, and again, I am speaking about real history, when an aircraft lands, the mech's will immediately refuel and rearm, and give the plane a once over. The pilots would tell the crew chief about any flight gripes that they have, then move the plane to its revetment for take-off. That can take anywhere from thirty minutes to an hour unless there is an immediate need to turn the plane around, then its just refuel, rearm and get the plane ready to launch again. I am not understanding the term "unready state" that you use, just asking. |
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Post by dohboy on Oct 14, 2019 16:15:58 GMT -6
I mean unready as in unfueled and unarmed. When you select a level of CAP it launches a fraction of availabile fighters to orbit, based on a formula I don't understand. The remainder of the fighters stay in the unready status and are unassigned until they are given the command to launch. There is no such thing as scrambling in the game, no alert crews or Ready Five or the like.
How it should work is that you set the number of aircraft assigned to CAP and a fraction of those should be launched to patrol and the remainder held in various states of readiness, like Ready Five (ready and spotted) and Ready Fifteen (ready but not spotted) and such, to be scrambled as necessary or replace patrolling aircraft when they approach bingo fuel.
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