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Post by cabalamat on Nov 17, 2019 22:28:59 GMT -6
> Prevented selecting possessions with a value of 10 or above as invasion targets (these are not invadeable, so the invasion would never fire).
Well I guess that's why i could never invade Sicily!
Which is ahistorical because of course Sicily was successfully invaded during the 1900-1955 time period. If something happened in real life there is no reason to have a specific game mechanic preventing it.
Ditto for the baltic states -- these changed hands multiple times over the time period of the game, so should be invadable.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Nov 17, 2019 23:22:40 GMT -6
> Prevented selecting possessions with a value of 10 or above as invasion targets (these are not invadeable, so the invasion would never fire).
Well I guess that's why i could never invade Sicily!
Which is ahistorical because of course Sicily was successfully invaded during the 1900-1955 time period. If something happened in real life there is no reason to have a specific game mechanic preventing it.
Ditto for the baltic states -- these changed hands multiple times over the time period of the game, so should be invadable.
Unless I missed something in my historical studies (always possible), Sicily was only invaded once in the Twentieth century, 1943. Now as far as the Baltics, after WW1, four nations emerged, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Finland. In 1941 the Germans invaded those states except Finland and after 1944, the Soviets occupied those states. I guess you could call those invasions, the Germans certainly did not, they were "liberators". So, I am not seeing how important all this is. But I believe that they should be invadable though. It makes sense since in the game, we are taking the Path not taken by history. Interestingly, Sicily over the centuries has been invaded by the Phoenicians, Carthaginians, Greeks, Byzantines, Romans, Arabs, Spaniards, Normans, French, Italians and even the British of course. |
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Post by jfmoyen on Nov 18, 2019 3:25:53 GMT -6
Unless I missed something in my historical studies (always possible), Sicily was only invaded once in the Twentieth century, 1943. Now as far as the Baltics, after WW1, four nations emerged, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Finland. In 1941 the Germans invaded those states except Finland and after 1944, the Soviets occupied those states. I guess you could call those invasions, the Germans certainly did not, they were "liberators". So, I am not seeing how important all this is. But I believe that they should be invadable though. It makes sense since in the game, we are taking the Path not taken by history. Interestingly, Sicily over the centuries has been invaded by the Phoenicians, Carthaginians, Greeks, Byzantines, Romans, Arabs, Spaniards, Normans, French, Italians and even the British of course. Sicily was invaded by sea, but as I remember the Baltic states were invaded by land, which is beyond the focus of the game - this is a naval game after all, not a full-blown world strategy game. But this begs the question indeed: would you be able to do something like Overlord or Dragon in the game ? Presumably not, as France would be un-invadeable, right ? Again it makes sense from a gaming perspective (as far as the Navies were concerned, these were essentially unopposed landings), but I wonder how you'd finish a WW II against Germany in the game ? |
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Post by kaguya on Nov 18, 2019 10:54:30 GMT -6
Unless I missed something in my historical studies (always possible), Sicily was only invaded once in the Twentieth century, 1943. Now as far as the Baltics, after WW1, four nations emerged, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Finland. In 1941 the Germans invaded those states except Finland and after 1944, the Soviets occupied those states. I guess you could call those invasions, the Germans certainly did not, they were "liberators". So, I am not seeing how important all this is. But I believe that they should be invadable though. It makes sense since in the game, we are taking the Path not taken by history. Interestingly, Sicily over the centuries has been invaded by the Phoenicians, Carthaginians, Greeks, Byzantines, Romans, Arabs, Spaniards, Normans, French, Italians and even the British of course. Sicily was invaded by sea, but as I remember the Baltic states were invaded by land, which is beyond the focus of the game - this is a naval game after all, not a full-blown world strategy game. But this begs the question indeed: would you be able to do something like Overlord or Dragon in the game ? Presumably not, as France would be un-invadeable, right ? Again it makes sense from a gaming perspective (as far as the Navies were concerned, these were essentially unopposed landings), but I wonder how you'd finish a WW II against Germany in the game ? I wish invasions against home areas were possible. Not for conquest of course, but to actually force a peace deal without submarines involved |
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Post by tortugapower on Nov 18, 2019 15:18:47 GMT -6
I understand the reason that huge point provinces (and Home Areas) are not invadeable: this prevents territory from trading hands which would ruin the game (either by breaking it by a nation losing Home region, or through resulting imbalance).
However, it would be really nice to have such invasions possible. It could be a super-invasion event, which needs greater than normal force superiority and time to prepare (e.g. 2x). If this invasion fires and is successful, the country does not lose that territory, but instead instantly loses the war badly (e.g. the 10+ peace points to the victor).
That way, we get around the change of territory that would break the game (like Home zones), but we can still have things such as naval invasions of Italy, France, England, etc., which should be possible and have been done historically, and it's fair to say these would end the war.
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Post by Fredrik W on Nov 18, 2019 16:46:26 GMT -6
IRL big invasions like the invasion of Sicily had total sea control as a prerequisite. Those are outside the scope of RTW2. Invasions in RTW2 are more like smaller invasions where the enemy might put in an appearance. Think of Midway where the enemy did indeed put in an (unscripted) appearance, or Guadalcanal where the enemy might possibly have shown up but didn't (until after the invasion was ashore).
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Post by Fredrik W on Nov 18, 2019 16:47:45 GMT -6
I understand the reason that huge point provinces (and Home Areas) are not invadeable: this prevents territory from trading hands which would ruin the game (either by breaking it by a nation losing Home region, or through resulting imbalance). However, it would be really nice to have such invasions possible. It could be a super-invasion event, which needs greater than normal force superiority and time to prepare (e.g. 2x). If this invasion fires and is successful, the country does not lose that territory, but instead instantly loses the war badly (e.g. the 10+ peace points to the victor). That way, we get around the change of territory that would break the game (like Home zones), but we can still have things such as naval invasions of Italy, France, England, etc., which should be possible and have been done historically, and it's fair to say these would end the war. Good idea! I will put that on the possible changes list. |
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Post by brygun on Nov 19, 2019 11:39:09 GMT -6
I understand the reason that huge point provinces (and Home Areas) are not invadeable: this prevents territory from trading hands which would ruin the game (either by breaking it by a nation losing Home region, or through resulting imbalance). However, it would be really nice to have such invasions possible. It could be a super-invasion event, which needs greater than normal force superiority and time to prepare (e.g. 2x). If this invasion fires and is successful, the country does not lose that territory, but instead instantly loses the war badly (e.g. the 10+ peace points to the victor). That way, we get around the change of territory that would break the game (like Home zones), but we can still have things such as naval invasions of Italy, France, England, etc., which should be possible and have been done historically, and it's fair to say these would end the war. Good idea! I will put that on the possible changes list. I would hope as well, if it doesn't already, that building coastal batteries influences the >game mechanic< for calculating invasions. The more beaches with guns and the bigger those guns the less the enemy has too choose from so the easier the defender has. A vague memory might suggest they do. They do it invisibly though. Perhaps we could have a pop-up during the turns to see if a landed invasion works like "8" Gun Battery in the Falklands halts enemy advance" By delaying an invader this turn it gives another chance for the defending army to expel them. The point being that the pop-up lets us know that the gun battery actually did something vs any unseen game mechanics. |
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Post by Fredrik W on Nov 19, 2019 12:09:16 GMT -6
Good idea! I will put that on the possible changes list. I would hope as well, if it doesn't already, that building coastal batteries influences the >game mechanic< for calculating invasions. The more beaches with guns and the bigger those guns the less the enemy has too choose from so the easier the defender has. A vague memory might suggest they do. They do it invisibly though. Perhaps we could have a pop-up during the turns to see if a landed invasion works like "8" Gun Battery in the Falklands halts enemy advance" By delaying an invader this turn it gives another chance for the defending army to expel them. The point being that the pop-up lets us know that the gun battery actually did something vs any unseen game mechanics. Coastal batteries do contribute to lowering the invasion chance. It is a good idea to notify the player that they did something. Thanks! |
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Post by oldpop2000 on Nov 19, 2019 12:21:33 GMT -6
Unless I missed something in my historical studies (always possible), Sicily was only invaded once in the Twentieth century, 1943. Now as far as the Baltics, after WW1, four nations emerged, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Finland. In 1941 the Germans invaded those states except Finland and after 1944, the Soviets occupied those states. I guess you could call those invasions, the Germans certainly did not, they were "liberators". So, I am not seeing how important all this is. But I believe that they should be invadable though. It makes sense since in the game, we are taking the Path not taken by history. Interestingly, Sicily over the centuries has been invaded by the Phoenicians, Carthaginians, Greeks, Byzantines, Romans, Arabs, Spaniards, Normans, French, Italians and even the British of course. Sicily was invaded by sea, but as I remember the Baltic states were invaded by land, which is beyond the focus of the game - this is a naval game after all, not a full-blown world strategy game. But this begs the question indeed: would you be able to do something like Overlord or Dragon in the game ? Presumably not, as France would be un-invadeable, right ? Again it makes sense from a gaming perspective (as far as the Navies were concerned, these were essentially unopposed landings), but I wonder how you'd finish a WW II against Germany in the game ? Well, that is not entirely true because during the Viking era, they invaded and established coastal towns. The invasions were by sea. The date is conjecture but I would guess around 800-1100 AD. |
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Post by brygun on Nov 20, 2019 15:07:30 GMT -6
Just a quick addition that I in my new for 1.12 USA game I am successful in getting invasions going. Thanks for the fix.
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