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Post by elouda on Jul 29, 2015 0:48:15 GMT -6
Thought I would make a thread for this, as this seems to not quite belong in the 'best ships' thread, but somewhat related;
One of things I've come to love the most about this game is watching the designs evolve over the period of a game, from the early, awkward attempts at trying to get a decent broadside, into the much more familiar profiles of the superdreadnoughts of the late 1910s and 1920s, and of course the lovely middle ground when the concept of superfiring is still a mystery (or maybe only makes sense from one end).
I addition to this, after playing with the superstructure editor a fair bit, its also very enjoyable to try and make sensible transitions between classes in terms of upperworks, so that you end up with a consistent visual style (whatever it might be).
So I thought a thread to share some of our creations, particularly 'design series' or families of ships, that might not quite make the cut for being 'the best', but that we still love anyway, would be worth making. So please, post your own, I'd love to see what kind of story your ships tell.
I'll start with some of mine in the next post, so not to clutter this opening post.
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Post by elouda on Jul 29, 2015 1:09:41 GMT -6
These are from my last game as Germany; From left to right (these are few repeats that were skipped, will be noted below); Wettin-class, 1906, 1 ship 22,800tons, 22 knots (later 20 due to bulges) 10x12in, no crossdeck fire 20x3in, casemates Zahringen-class, 1907, 2 ships 20,100tons, 22 knots (later 20) 8x12in, crossdeck firing 18x3in, casemates Mecklenburg-class, 1909, 2 ships 22,700tons, 22 knots (later 20) 8x12in, all centerline, superfiring X 18x3in, casemates Elsass-class, 1911, 4 ships 26,000tons, 22 knots (later 20) 10x12in, all centerline, no superfiring B yet, so 5th turret in R position 18x3in, casemates Hannover-class, 1915, 3 ships 35,700tons, 23 knots (made 24 as built, later 22 due to bulges) 10x15in, all centerline, still no superfiring B 20x3in, shielded Lothringen-class, 1916, 2 ships 36,200tons, 23 knots 10x15in, all centerline, both ends superfiring 20x3in, shielded Rheinland-class, 1918, 2 ships (repeat Lothringen with slightly better armour, not shown) 36,200tons, 23 knots 10x15in, all centerline 20x3in, shielded Westfalen-class, 1919, 2 ships (repeat Rheinland with improved engines, not shown) 36,200tons, 24 knots 10x15in, all centerline 20x3in, shielded Helgoland-class, 1920, cancelled (2 ships planned, not shown) 37,900tons, 25 knots 10x15in, all centerline 14x5in, shielded Siegfried-class, 1923, 4 ships 50,400tons, 24 knots 8x18in, all centerline 20x5in, armoured dual turrets Overall, despite being very late to the superfiring front turrets party, I was very happy with these designs and how they progressed. There are two major 'breaks' in the design evolution, between Elsass and Hannover (which marked the move from 12in to 15in, and to AON protection), and between Westfalen and Siegfried (which marked the move from 15in to 18in, and to full secondaries). They also (particularly the later 10x15in designs) did an excellent job in combat. Apart from this, there were 2 designs outside this 'family', the first being a 4x11in, 8x10in BC, two of which were built in 1905. The second was a 10x12in BC design, two of which were built in 1919. This latter one actually partially related to the ships above, as it was largely based off the Elsass except with a full superfiring layout and more speed.
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krawa
Junior Member
Posts: 90
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Post by krawa on Jul 30, 2015 2:27:07 GMT -6
Very nice Elouda, I will post my designs once I have progressed further (still not past my second Generation, wife/Kids and Job taking all my time)
Looking at your designs I have some questions:
- Why didn't you use triple turrets when superfiring B just didn't Show up? - Why the big jumps in main caliber instead of a gradual increase? - Did you have the opportunity to prove you 3" only secondaries in a later battle? I think the german 3" guns are really good early on but I fear they might lack Punch once destroyers grow bigger...
On a side note, did you use historical or normal Budget?
Regards, Krawa
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Post by elouda on Jul 30, 2015 2:52:38 GMT -6
Very nice Elouda, I will post my designs once I have progressed further (still not past my second Generation, wife/Kids and Job taking all my time) Looking at your designs I have some questions: - Why didn't you use triple turrets when superfiring B just didn't Show up? - Why the big jumps in main caliber instead of a gradual increase? - Did you have the opportunity to prove you 3" only secondaries in a later battle? I think the german 3" guns are really good early on but I fear they might lack Punch once destroyers grow bigger... On a side note, did you use historical or normal Budget? Regards, Krawa 1. I didn't get triples until around 1911 or so, and generally prefer not to use them until the 'improved' triples appear - which in this case was much later. The only ship that was really a candidate from my point of view was the second BC design from 1920, which could have been 9x12 instead of the 10x12 it ended up as. At that point I had mostly decided to stick with dual turrets anyway - and I really do like the art style for the big German dual turrets. 2. Variety of reasons - the first just as you can see was after a fairly long pause - the Elsass was the first class to use quality 0 12in guns, and shortly afterward I had quality -1 13in and 14in available. When the Hannover class was laid down I had just gotten AON and quality 0 15in (13-14 were still -1), so that seemed a logical jump. 15in became the standard for the next several classes - after which there was another long pause of almost 6 years, where due to budget cuts and other 'programs' (being ordered to build many DD and SS), dreadnought building was at a standstill - even leading to the cancellation of the 2 Helgoland class ships only months after they were laid down. I also updated a lot of my CL force during this time, so overall it was productive, and I was happy enough with a 9-ship 15in battleline. 1921 rolled around, and with tensions with the UK high, and war looking inevitable, I decided that if I was going to build more dreads, then they'd better outmatch the best the RN had to offer (the 36600 ton, 10x16in, 21 knot Magnificient-class). So the 4 Siegfrieds were laid down, and war did indeed break out in 1922. The first 2 of the class were completed in time to see action during the last half a year of the war - most of the work was done by the 15in battleline however, and the two 12in BCs. 3. I had a change to test them out several time - early on they seemed sufficient, but it was very clear in the later parts of a war in 1915-1917 with Russia that they might not be enough against the newer DD's over 1000 tons. This was why the Helgolands were planned with 5in instead, as were the Seigfrieds. I refitted the older ships out of 3in, though in retrospect it might have been worth it. Thankfully I tend to build a lot of CL, which did a good job of keeping British DDs away in that war (in return for 9 CL lost, sadly). 4. This was played on 'Very Large', with Historical Budgets on, but with everyones budgets modified upwards around 30-35% - I guess you could call it 'very very large'.
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krawa
Junior Member
Posts: 90
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Post by krawa on Jul 30, 2015 4:43:37 GMT -6
How do you modify the Budgets for a given Setting (I guess editing some file with Texteditor)? Doesn't this also increase the Research rate even further?
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Post by elouda on Jul 30, 2015 5:09:30 GMT -6
How do you modify the Budgets for a given Setting (I guess editing some file with Texteditor)? Doesn't this also increase the Research rate even further? They're defined as 'HBR' in the BNat.dat file. Technically, it could lead to faster tech, but I haven't really noticed a major difference (this is my second game with these kinds of settings). For example at the end I was still missing several techs in different categories, while in some regular 'Very Large' games I've had those (Adv. Directors for one, along with Improved oil firing, etc). It does mean that base/dock expansion are proportionally a little less expensive, and that the demands for 28 DD's aren't quite as crippling as usually. As said, I was able to manage both 28 DD's and 28 SS demands with only a few million defecit, which was manageable. It also means colonies are proportionally less of a nations income.
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