Some Questions about Conquered Territories

[mrbojangles]

Hello,

I had some questions regarding conquered territories gained in a peace deal. These came about in my current Austria game, where I've been disinclined to take territory outside of the Mediterranean.

1. Is it better to take no territory in a peace deal, and instead only take the economic benefits?

2. Along those same lines, if I get a 10 point peace settlement, and I take Sardinia and Rhodes from Italy, which are worth 6 points total, the remaining 4 points are applied to my economy, correct?

3. Anything outside your build zone will ultimately be de-colonized, correct? But what about territory conquered in your build zone? Using the previous example, I took Sardinia and Rhodes from Italy in a peace settlement. Since my build zone is the Mediterranean, are these mine forever, or will they eventually be de-colonized?

4. Is it worth it to expand bases in territories in your home zone, or only for territories abroad?

Thank you!

[dorn]

Feb 4, 2020 10:45:41 GMT -6 mrbojangles said:

Hello,

I had some questions regarding conquered territories gained in a peace deal. These came about in my current Austria game, where I've been disinclined to take territory outside of the Mediterranean.

1. Is it better to take no territory in a peace deal, and instead only take the economic benefits?

2. Along those same lines, if I get a 10 point peace settlement, and I take Sardinia and Rhodes from Italy, which are worth 6 points total, the remaining 4 points are applied to my economy, correct?

3. Anything outside your build zone will ultimately be de-colonized, correct? But what about territory conquered in your build zone? Using the previous example, I took Sardinia and Rhodes from Italy in a peace settlement. Since my build zone is the Mediterranean, are these mine forever, or will they eventually be de-colonized?

4. Is it worth it to expand bases in territories in your home zone, or only for territories abroad?

Thank you!

It is matter of your strategy, so there is sometimes not the only best possibility. I will try to explain pros and cons that you can decide yourself.

1. If you look only on your budget, economic benefits are the best. However there can be some ideas behind taking possessions.
a) strategic possessions as Suez, Panama, any with oil
b) to obtain the first possession in that area giving you possibility to operate there
c) to take last possession of that nation in that area to denied access 
d) increase base value in that area that you can have larger fleet there without risk and without investing into bases which takes money and time
d) just to grab land

2. Yes, you are correct.
3. I am not certain.
4. I do not think that expanding bases in your home area has any effect as the basing rights are quite high and your fleet will probable never exceed that.

[akosjaccik]

Hello! I'm afraid I can't give precise answers for every question, but hopefully soon enough someone will come with the actual numbers.

1.) Yes, that is advised especially in early game, because reparations get added to the base resources, which will then get further modified by additional events and multipliers. Colonial holdings also have economic value, but not enough to beat the "take no territories"-approach. Unfortunately, I do not have the exact numbers at hand, but I do recall people crunching the math.

2.) To my understanding, that is the case.

3.) Quite frankly, this is the first time I read this. While it might be true still, so far I had no idea that this is the case, IF this is the case. Probably de-colonization may depend on the form of government (or perhaps even on what the player holds at the start of the game and what is a later requisition?) as well, as for example with Japan I had no issues with aggressive expansion apart from a rebellion here or there.
Personally, I rarely ever took territories outside of the Mediterranean region as A-H, since it's a royal pain with not a whole lot of positives, so I can't refer to my own experience regarding those.

4.) In my experience you start with a large enough base capacity in your core region that usually does not warrant a base expansion, but you can check this on your map screen on the list on the left. You should see something like this:
The Mediterranean 129 900 (142/600)
In this case, my base capacity is valued at 600 points, of which 142 points are used. It's very likely I won't need an expansion the whole game. Do note that if you are allied with foreign powers, you are allowed to use their facilities, in this case temporarily this number can be higher.

[rs2excelsior]

For 1, the money is better if you take fewer reparations, but possessions can get you bases in a region, deny enemy bases there, give you bases for aircraft/deny enemies those bases, and serve as jumping off points for future naval invasions—when fighting the French, for example, if I’m looking to expand into Southeast Asia I’ll take one of their holdings in Vietnam and then start invading the others in future wars.

Regarding 3, not everything will be decolonized. I still had most of my bases in my most recent Germany game into the 60s. That said, Iceland got independence, which is in Germany’s home area of Northern Europe, so those holdings aren’t immune to decolonization. Although supposedly as of 1.15 the government is supposed to ask you before they go granting independence to important naval facilities

[mycophobia]

3, Decolonization is dependent on types of government, rebellion will also happen throughout the game. By no means will everything eventually be de-colonized, its much more common to have 2-3 region tops in a 1945 games. In my Japan/Russia game I've had no region decolonized.

Im not sure homewater colony will eventually be decolonized or not, I've never seen Italy release any of its colony though that Is not to say its impossible.

Most common target for decolonization seems to be India(which might have some hidden buff as I see it in probably 50% of my games), and various small SEA/Caribbean Islands.

[mrbojangles]

Thanks for the replies, gents. I think I've got a firm grasp of the ship design and tactical elements of the game, but the strategic aspects were definitely escaping me a bit.

As a bit of a follow up, I have a more general question regarding strategy for Austria: is it worth it to grab French and Italian possessions in the Med, since you'll never be able to deny them bases there? I'm torn between expanding within the Mediterranean, or just hunkering down and turning the Adriatic into an Austrian lake. If I do go for anything overseas, it would probably just be small 1-point territories for use as commerce raiding bases.

[mycophobia]

Grabbing bases has the additional effect of allowing you to project airpower, provide port of to escape to, and affect battle generation locations. This can have some strategic benefit since if you say, took Corsica from Italy, your fleet have a location to retreat to if the battle generator ever gives you a battle where you are fighting on the west coast of Italy.

Air coverage is also very powerful and important for med actions later on, and denying enemy airbase is certainly useful if you don't plan to build any yourself.
Coastal battery at places like Sicily may also see a bit of use.

Now is this all worth it, its up to you. I'd like to at least grab Libya and Tunisa to put most of the eastern Med under my control, but probably not taking over everything out there.

[akosjaccik]

Purely personal, but I'd prefer to take full compensations in the first half of the game, and in the second half start expanding if I feel like coloring the map. In that case I'd priorize territories in part for reasons Myco' mentioned (for example, Malta is a very strong position in the game as well both for naval and air assets), but also in part looking at the possibility to reach them via amphibious assault.
In case I take Tunisia and utilize it as a bridgehead, it is perhaps an option that I can assault and take Malta, Sardinia or Algeria by force due to their proximity, should I start a new war with their current owners. So (let's say for the sake of argument, that EVERY territory currently belongs to my enemy) if I bag Tunisia, I might not select Malta or Sardinia, but instead take Gibraltar, Cyprus or Rhodes, places which I have either very limited possibility to reach with an amphibious assault, or outright none whatsoever, making a peace deal/dictate the only real option.
Then again, conducting an amphibious operation in an environment where massed late-game land-based air force is a thing is most likely the antithesis of "fun", so caveat emptor. This is true even if you for example take Italy's every single non-home region - you are still up against 1000-1400 land-based aircraft in late-game. Originally the AI had issues of over-priorizing air bases, even to the detriment of the navy, this is presumable fine-tuned but in my limited experience the issue is still somewhat prevalent.

Beware of overseas posessions as well however, as in certain cases they might be more trouble than worth, and although the first little colony will most likely not do so, after a given amout of (probably) points of territories you are required to organize colonial policing as well. Overseas colonization (in game terms I mean expanding outside of one's home region) - once again, strictly personally - is something I usually go for in a "do it very seriously, or do not do it at all"-fashion.

Overall, I'd go for a stable economical base, then either re-color the Mediterranean, or have some wild fun with for example suffocating the french, take Annam for example if possible, and then start expanding and island-hopping in the SEA-region. Completely up to you, of course.