|
Post by brygun on Feb 8, 2020 10:31:32 GMT -6
When launching attack groups at long range in the mid-afternoon they message comes up about "they will land at night do you want to risk that?" (rough translation). It is also that it will be twilight when they get to their target zone. I consent to the risk.
When the planes are flying out it is still daylight at their target zone when they start flying back.
It appears they did not even get to the target zone as twilight has not arrived there nor where the carrier is.
It appears the land airbase behaviour is being applied to the carrier planes.
This was not the behaviour in earlier patchs. Im not entirely sure which patch started applying this.
In this case the CVs and the ~90 torp planes across them are a huge part of my hitting power and the gun line in my fleet is never go to match their gun line. The tactic being used is to blitz them with torp planes then look for vulnerable or cut off survivors else withdraw. Watching the whole strike turn for home before twilight means the whole battle is now an abort. It also means they lost 1/2 the carriers torpedoes as we currently only recover from planes that never launched. These turned for home early.
(edit: game file now attached)
|
|
|
Post by brygun on Feb 8, 2020 15:44:18 GMT -6
Had a second battle come up so I saved the start of the battle. To recreate: load battle Prep attack squadrons Sending scouts south or waiting for air base planes (from France) to spot the enemy gives a target location. This will be on east end of the English channel Launch attack squadrons to there. Agree that them landing at night is acceptable Watch them go Watch them turn around Never getting to their assigned strike location The timing matches with them turning around BEFORE night even though you agreed to have them land DURING night
|
|
|
Post by brygun on Feb 8, 2020 15:45:41 GMT -6
PS. Changed title of thread as I believe this is happening in 1.17 vs 1.16c when I had started being sure this was happening. May have started in earlier versions. Im sure this happened before but at that time I hadnt realized how severe it was
|
|
|
Post by rs2excelsior on Feb 9, 2020 10:18:22 GMT -6
I have seen this in earlier versions as well (the earliest I know I have seen it is 1.14). Especially frustrating when they turn around late enough that they land at night anyway, taking losses from landings and not even getting to strike the target in exchange.
|
|
|
Post by williammiller on Feb 9, 2020 12:32:18 GMT -6
Thanks for the report, will check this.
|
|
|
Post by brygun on Mar 3, 2020 15:43:17 GMT -6
bump
Didnt see this addressed in 1.18 notes. Any news on this issue?
|
|
|
Post by Fredrik W on Mar 3, 2020 15:46:53 GMT -6
I am not sure this is a bug. Planes will return if they think they must to be able to land before night sets in at their base.
Nothing has been changed about this for a long time.
|
|
|
Post by brygun on Mar 3, 2020 16:26:34 GMT -6
We can no longer have >carrier< planes do night attacks. I certainly have had them attack at night before. This isn't the case anymore.
The game asks that knowing it will be dusk/night when they land do we want them to go anyway. Player says yes but the planes say no by turning back before night reaches them.
The behavior of the land based planes very well has been to always to turn back to land before night but this is the >carrier< planes now doing this. As stated this is >after< explicit permission was given by the player to do so anyway.
Why would be asked if want them to land night if they never would do that? Answer, I believe, is they used to but now are not.
|
|
|
Post by rimbecano on Mar 3, 2020 16:53:20 GMT -6
In any case, I can think of at least one historical action in which planes actually did return after dark, with attendant losses operational losses (Philippine Sea).
|
|
|
Post by brygun on Mar 3, 2020 17:14:35 GMT -6
And there is the... Oh my god the battleships are coming for the carrier! Launch the planes even if its getting dark! They'll die on the carrier if they don't but this way some of them and us will live!
|
|
|
Post by jwsmith26 on Mar 5, 2020 9:01:43 GMT -6
The British flew night missions regularly and had been training for night actions since the mid-thirties, but it did require training (Taranto was a night attack). The Americans had not trained for night actions prior to the war and were very cautious about night missions early in the war. Later in the war, after developing night equipment and gaining experience and developing training processes, both on board the carrier and the aircraft, they operated several carriers devoted exclusively to night actions. This was largely in response to night attacks executed by the Japanese. So night air action was definitely happening in WW2.
Not just any plane or any crew could safely fly night missions. To simulate this correctly would probably require the creation of a separate class of night capable aircraft and crews. Fredrik hasn't stated this, but I think the added complexity it would bring to an already very complex air system was judged to be too much for the benefits it would provide.
However, I do think that if the game specifically warns you of the dangers of a night landing and you persist anyway, then it should allow the mission to continue regardless of night. On the other hand, perhaps the penalty for landing at night should be increased if players think the consequences of a night mission are routinely worth the cost. It does seem extraordinarily inconsequential to lose pilots and planes in this way due to the almost certain replacement prior to the next engagement.
|
|
|
Post by brygun on Mar 6, 2020 8:48:23 GMT -6
However, I do think that if the game specifically warns you of the dangers of a night landing and you persist anyway, then it should allow the mission to continue regardless of night. On the other hand, perhaps the penalty for landing at night should be increased if players think the consequences of a night mission are routinely worth the cost. It does seem extraordinarily inconsequential to lose pilots and planes in this way due to the almost certain replacement prior to the next engagement. Remembering that night landing doesn't necessarily mean a "night attack" (though it could be both). In some cases the planes could reach the enemy ships in day or twilight with the long flight back meaning the carrier is in night darkness. On the consequences there is the strategic situation. In one game Ive built CVs earlier than others at the expense of not building as many BB/BC. In battle it is the BB/BC that are more often lost as the CV are farther back to even be targeted. After a few years or a few wars the proprotions have shifted even more so. The enemy with a big income has 8 BB/BC and 2 CV while I am fielding 2-4 BB/BC at a time based on who comes out of repairs with 2-3 CV supported by 4-8 CVL. A viable, and I suggest the preferred, fight is to engage through air power where we have parity or superiority (my CVs are ~80 planes each to their ~60) while avoiding significant gun action. In such a war as this an evening battle is actual wonderful. The planes launch their bombs and torpedoes in daylight or twilight and yes suffer crashes landing at night. With the night the surviving enemy gun line will have great difficulty finding us especially if radar isnt around. These dusk air battles are among the best to be hoped for. It does mean tens of planes with crews crashing in night landings versus thousands of enemy sailors on sunk ships and the risk of losing thousands of sailors from our capital ships. Of those air crew in crashes there will be deaths but also injured and survivors.
|
|
|
Post by oldpop2000 on Mar 6, 2020 10:18:19 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by brygun on May 5, 2020 23:29:43 GMT -6
Persists into 1.20
Did once again say go ahead and take the risk but the planes turned back.
Though we can debate the real world practicality of it the game is asking the player who is confirming the planes should take the risk but they won't.
|
|
|
Post by sagaren on May 6, 2020 1:52:02 GMT -6
Persists into 1.20 Did once again say go ahead and take the risk but the planes turned back. Though we can debate the real world practicality of it the game is asking the player who is confirming the planes should take the risk but they won't. I've seen the same thing and tend to agree. I've missed out on some great opportunities at just over the horizon slaughters because a full strike package turns around in sight of the enemy to scurry back to the carrier before the twilight line reaches it. I do think this is something that should be addressed down the road. I seem to recall when I first got the game you could launch full nightstrikes if you wished, much less at twilight.
|
|