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Post by brucesim2003 on Aug 14, 2015 12:01:16 GMT -6
When BC's appear on the scene, the AI stops building CA's, which is fine. So we get cruiser battles and the AI cruisers are (from about 1915) almost always BC's. When I try the same thing, I get penalised for not having sufficient cruisers available. Either I have CA's (which get sunk), or I have BC's which the scenario generator conveniently refuses to use in cruiser battles. Noticed it in one war with the French....they had 1 BC and 1/2 dozen CL's in their fleet. Every single cruiser battle was against the BC. When I moved a couple BC's to deal with it and moved out my other cruisers (to basically force a BC engagement), I got "insufficient friendly ships...enemy gets 40 points" or some such. Why did the AI not get that when all it seemed to have available was 1 BC?
We are still in a situation where we are dancing to the RNG tune. Either the AI is cooking the books (which I doubt) or there is something wrong with the scenario generator.
Another issue I have noticed is often the enemy gets to sortie practically it's entire fleet, while 1/2 mine stays at home. Literally. One German campaign I had 9 B's in europe vs the enemy's 7. Fleet battle they had 6 of their BB's, vs 4 of mine. This is not a solo occurrence. Yet it as never happened the other way round. I realise that detachments can get caught out, but it happens often enough that I get the feeling the program has decided it's time for me to lose, regardless of the strategic situation.
Starting to get a little irritated by the fact that the AI doesn't seem to play by the same rules as the human. See the discussion in another thread about AI designs that are illegal for the player.
Bruce
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Post by hschuster44 on Aug 14, 2015 16:03:42 GMT -6
A bit more war time player influence on AF ships located in home waters would be great in the long run. Similar to SAI where you could activate single ships for selected objectives. That should solve the described problem. There is still some open space below the research button ;-)
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Post by Fredrik W on Aug 14, 2015 23:52:11 GMT -6
The intention of the force selection routines is to mostly create battles between similar types of ships with more or less equal forces, subject to ship availability of course. But there is also some randomization with the intention to sometimes create unequal battles. The force selection for scenarios works exactly the same for the player and the AI. Any imbalances or ships left at home should hit both sides to the same extent.
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Post by hschuster44 on Aug 15, 2015 5:10:57 GMT -6
... If nothing is going to be changed within RTW we might take comfort in the fact that Tirpitz too made the bitter sweet experience that most of "his" precious ships weren’t put at risk when things started to get serious in August 1914.
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Post by mikebrough on Aug 15, 2015 5:41:02 GMT -6
The intention of the force selection routines is to mostly create battles between similar types of ships with more or less equal forces, subject to ship availability of course. But there is also some randomization with the intention to sometimes create unequal battles. The force selection for scenarios works exactly the same for the player and the AI. Any imbalances or ships left at home should hit both sides to the same extent. FW if the game generates roughly balanced scenarios, what's the point of building high ship numbers or of putting them into zones? If I put a BB, BC and 4 CAs into an area and the enemy only has 4 CAs, my BB and BC will be useless and will seldom get into a fight. Is that a correct summary? |
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Post by Fredrik W on Aug 15, 2015 6:07:25 GMT -6
The intention of the force selection routines is to mostly create battles between similar types of ships with more or less equal forces, subject to ship availability of course. But there is also some randomization with the intention to sometimes create unequal battles. The force selection for scenarios works exactly the same for the player and the AI. Any imbalances or ships left at home should hit both sides to the same extent. FW if the game generates roughly balanced scenarios, what's the point of building high ship numbers or of putting them into zones? If I put a BB, BC and 4 CAs into an area and the enemy only has 4 CAs, my BB and BC will be useless and will seldom get into a fight. Is that a correct summary? It is a little more complicated than that. The above applies to cruiser battles.
In a fleet battle, both sides will try to field the maximum effort.
In the smaller battles, the above is true. However, since there are lots of situations where there are not ships enough available to fill out the force, a nation with a larger fleet is likely to have more ships available in a given area, it is still likely a large navy will more often have larger forces.
There is also a chance that a support force will be present, and that is dependent on ships being in area.
Obviously, the end effect desired in the game is that a larger nation should have use for its ships, but OTOH it is desirable that smaller nations have a chance against a larger enemy and not gets clobbered by larger numbers every battle. That would not be fun to play from either side. It is also desirable that there is a possibility for surprise and unequal battles to keep the game challenging and realistic.
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Post by brucesim2003 on Aug 15, 2015 7:58:16 GMT -6
What about the AI repeatedly getting BC's in a cruiser battle, but the player gets "insufficient ships etc" when all they have is BC's. When a war turns primarily into cruiser warfare, I'm finding late in the game the AI seems to consistently have BC's, and when I try to counter with my own, I get penalised.
Cheers
Bruce
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Post by Fredrik W on Aug 15, 2015 9:21:14 GMT -6
What about the AI repeatedly getting BC's in a cruiser battle, but the player gets "insufficient ships etc" when all they have is BC's. When a war turns primarily into cruiser warfare, I'm finding late in the game the AI seems to consistently have BC's, and when I try to counter with my own, I get penalised. Cheers Bruce Exactly the same logic is used for AI and player force selection. If you have a save where you feel that this does not give reasonable results, please post it with a description of which areas the problem is in and I will investigate it. |
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Post by brucesim2003 on Aug 15, 2015 14:47:59 GMT -6
Actually you can see it happening right from the beginning. Build legacy BC's, with no CA's or CL's in the area, and you will see it refusing to use them in a cruiser battle, with the insufficient ships penalty cropping up. But the AI will have BC's in cruiser battles quite happily, albeit not that early as it doesn't use legacy BC's it seems.
Cheers
Bruce
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