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Post by Fredrik W on Aug 15, 2015 15:46:06 GMT -6
I am thinking about maybe changing submarines in ver 1.2 so that they can be moved around on the strategic map like normal ships instead of having them in a global pool. I would like to know what players think about this?
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Post by ccip on Aug 15, 2015 16:31:25 GMT -6
Enthusiastic yes from me - though I'm a bit biased towards submarines in general.
I also think it would be a step forward you'd have to make eventually anyway if RTW will later get expanded to post-1925, as submarine strategy and tactics develop.
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Post by brucesim2003 on Aug 15, 2015 23:32:48 GMT -6
I vote yes, seeing as the correct answer (ban them from the face of the earth) is not available. It would also need to take into account the location of ASW ships. A DD in Europe can;t exactly sink a sub in the Pacific (even today).
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Post by alchenar on Aug 16, 2015 1:29:58 GMT -6
A Yes - however it needs to be part of a general overhaul of that part of the game. The player needs some kind of indicator of where enemy merchant traffic is. Similarly if the Submarine aspect of the game is getting more direct control then the player needs more control over ASW as a balance.
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Post by hschuster44 on Aug 16, 2015 2:54:41 GMT -6
Every feature that offers moving or objective orders to single units - subs or ships - in certain areas would be a nice addition.
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dang
New Member
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Post by dang on Aug 16, 2015 8:12:24 GMT -6
I think this might be a nice way to distinguish SSC from SS units. Limit SSC to home waters.
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Post by JagdFlanker on Aug 16, 2015 8:40:13 GMT -6
i should likely be throwing this in the suggestion thread, but it relates to this poll so i'l throw it here
maybe add a mid-north atlantic (and mid-south atlantic, mid-pacific, etc) convoy box where sides can assign subs/raiders to hunt ships and convoy escort DD/CL/CA/etc to escort convoys or intercept raiders. keep it simple and have all those battles auto-resolve. have intel give an idea if the enemy is throwing ships/subs in a convoy box so you have a chance to send the appropriate counter in before the enemy can reap rewards
just don't make it so flooding a convoy box with massive forces for a turn or 2 before the other side can send in a counter doesn't reap overwhelming rewards for 1 side
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Post by gornik on Aug 16, 2015 9:35:17 GMT -6
Yes! I love this idea, as now coastal submarine from Europe may sink my battleship in South Pacific or be sunk by ASW patrol in the Far East, which looks odd  |
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Post by oldpop2000 on Aug 16, 2015 9:43:18 GMT -6
Historically, the ability to move submarines around based on the strategic situation is absolutely vital, but needs to be researched. I believe we must find out, how effective radio communications would be with submarines at this time in history. Submarines could only be moved with radio communications between the fleet commander or the Naval staff, that is if the submarines were tied to a particular combat operation as scouts or other necessary functions. We need more information about how it was done, to make it realistic. One caveat: radio communications can be intercepted and read, like the British Room 40. If you transmit a signal to a submarine, it might be read by your opponent. He will be able to know approximately where the submarine is currently and where it is headed. That is a lot of valuable information, so it might be better to just maintain radio silence during combat operations.
I vote that research be done and that an update at a later date be forthcoming once the NWS Team is certain that it has the necessary information. We should not rush into this. I look forward to all this when I am able to find time to purchase and play the game.
Just my opinion.
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Post by Sven on Aug 16, 2015 12:55:57 GMT -6
I vote yes, seeing as the correct answer (ban them from the face of the earth) is not available. It would also need to take into account the location of ASW ships. A DD in Europe can;t exactly sink a sub in the Pacific (even today). Yes, Ships on coastal patrol might also need more detail added ( unless they automatically get spread out over different areas). and you might want to add cruiser submarines as an additional type ( type U-151 or type U-139 for example) since neither coastal nor medium or mine submarines had the range to operate beyond an area with bases in this timeperiod. |
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Post by alchenar on Aug 17, 2015 4:33:50 GMT -6
On further consideration I've changed my vote to no (similarly provisionally).
RtW is so much fun because it's primarily a game about surface combatants meeting. As people have noted, moving Submarines around means also having info about trade routes, moving Destroyers around to counter, possibly having special commerce zones on the map etc etc.
Once you've thrown all that stuff in and got it all to work together then the game has stopped being a fleet combat game with an economic dimension and has become an economic warfare simulator with occasional battles. Submarines need work, but they should remain an abstracted way for nations with budget problems to force their opponents to spend resources on Destroyers/ASW.
tl;dr: I want to spend more time commanding big fleets in battles and less time clicking to move entries from one box to another in the strategic mode. One is fun, the other not so much.
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Post by jorges on Aug 17, 2015 18:59:29 GMT -6
Yes, submarines should be region specific:
- Only allowed on regions with base support, as they didn't have the range to go anywhere else
- CSS with the same penalties of "short" range, can only move during peace time
Coastal patrol/ ASW should also be region specific
And commerce war should only affect home waters (severely) and regions with bases (mildly).. If I am Japan:
a submarine (or raider) in the Mediterranean should not affect me
a submarine (or raider) in South East Asia should affect me
a submarine (or raider) in North East Asia should severely affect me
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Post by Fredrik W on Aug 18, 2015 0:11:14 GMT -6
Yes, submarines should be region specific: - Only allowed on regions with base support, as they didn't have the range to go anywhere else - CSS with the same penalties of "short" range, can only move during peace time Coastal patrol/ ASW should also be region specific And commerce war should only affect home waters (severely) and regions with bases (mildly).. If I am Japan: a submarine (or raider) in the Mediterranean should not affect me a submarine (or raider) in South East Asia should affect me a submarine (or raider) in North East Asia should severely affect me Just a comment: Your suggestions on commerce war are already true for raiders, except that all nations are affected by raiders in Europe regardless of location, as it is assumed that all nations are trading heavily with Europe.
Similarly, coastal submarines are assumed to operate only in the home area of the owning nation.
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simon
New Member
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Post by simon on Oct 2, 2015 6:32:16 GMT -6
A very loud 'YES' from me!
I love handling U-Boots.
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Post by durandal on Oct 2, 2015 10:54:11 GMT -6
Yes from me.
However I wouldn't change the strategic warfare gameplay just to beef up the sub war. We can move raiders. We should be able to move subs. That's about it. The one additional thing I'd ask for is a chance for a report/warning that subs are now operating in XYZ zone.
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