Mmm what too take ?

[cuthalin]

I am interested to know what you would take and why ?

I took Antilles to clear France from the Carib and Algiers as it can get Oil and is a larger Med base.  

[aeson]

I would have taken economic reparations instead of colonies. Economic reparations are worth more money than colonies (especially over the long run), Britain doesn't really need additional bases in the Mediterranean, there isn't much benefit to removing the French presence in the Caribbean (wars between Britain and France are almost certainly decided in Northern Europe, where blockades are enforced and contested, and activity in all the other sea zones apart perhaps from the Mediterranean is likely to amount to little more than a side-show that can probably be adequately handled by minimal station squadrons composed of obsolescent cruisers), gaining an extra colony in a sea zone by treaty or invasion usually means that the station squadron needs more or bigger ships at the same time as a potential enemy becomes better able to concentrate their own fleets due to a reduction in their own colonial station requirements, and the probability of discovering oil in any given possession at some point in the game is pretty low so taking a possession to gain or deny access to oil is only really worthwhile if the possession in question already has oil.

Probably the strongest - albeit at this stage very meta-gamey - reason for Britain to take colonies in the Mediterranean from France or Italy is that it denies France and Italy potential future airbases there, though for that purpose I think Tunisia or perhaps Corsica would've been a slightly better take than Algeria.

[nimrod]

Denying oil pre-1920 is a sound strategy in my opinion, I'm not sure if Algiers has oil in your game. If Algiers didn't have oil, I probably would have taken African colonies like Madagascar and Djbouti to deprive the French of basing options when they deploy ships to Asia and boost my ability to move ships to Asia without degradation (in case of war with Japan). Antilles does both once the Panama Channel opens and taking it was sound in my opinion, also can help with a USA war.

If I was spoiling for a war with Japan I would have taken Tonkin or Annam as both have 50 base capacity and are in a good sea zone to wear Japan down; after you lose your lone North West Pacific base to a sneak attack.

Honestly I mainly play as Germany, Italy or Japan and I try to keep my colony take-overs limited in number and also in already established sea zones unless I'm taking an oil producing territory or taking a channel (Panama or Egypt). Not to argue with aeson, as reparations often make sense; but England's budget event of keeping the navy preeminent would make me lean towards taking strategic colonies. Again, I don't play as England, but I don't see what good extra income provides as I think they get a free budget ride via events... I'll also state - I'm writing this last paragraph to show some confusion on my part. In no way do I think my lack of experience with England trumps aeson's experience and wisdom.

[aeson]

Jan 7, 2021 13:18:17 GMT -6 nimrod said:

Not to argue with aeson, as reparations often make sense; but England's budget event of keeping the navy preeminent would make me lean towards taking strategic colonies. Again, I don't play as England, but I don't see what good extra income provides as I think they get a free budget ride via events... I'll also state - I'm writing this last paragraph to show some confusion on my part. In no way do I think my lack of experience with England trumps aeson's experience and wisdom.

The event you're talking about can help, but it is not nearly as powerful as you appear to think it is - especially on game budget settings, Germany is fairly likely to overtake Britain in the 1910s-1920s (though it will tend to recede a bit later in the game), Japan will likely catch up to Britain in the 1930s-1940s and possibly overtake Britain in the 1940s-1950s, and the USA will likely overtake Britain in the 1910s-1920s and then completely eclipse it in the 1930s-1940s if budgets are allowed to grow 'naturally' (including Britain's budget increase to keep its navy preeminent under 'natural' growth). Furthermore, at least as the player-nation, it appears that that event is reactionary rather than proactive - it seems to trigger most commonly when tensions are high with a power which already has a fleet or a budget which is a significant fraction of or greater than Britain's, and even so it doesn't usually trigger nearly often enough to keep up with the USA - so when it occurs it tends to be more a somewhat-anemic attempt to regain an advantage already lost or retain one already well on its way to being lost rather than being a boost that lets you relatively easily retain the Royal Navy's early-game advantages.

Beyond that, Britain has enormous colonial commitments - even on Very Small fleet size, you need 59,000 tons across seven sea zones, and that number increases on higher fleet size settings, all the way up to 171,000 tons across ten sea zones on Super Large fleet size. Even if you only use inexpensive legacy cruisers and corvettes to cover the colonial areas, the forces required to cover those commitments are a pretty big drain on your fleet strength and a pretty big hole in your budget for at least the earlier part of the game - all the more so since ships stationed overseas in peacetime cost more to maintain than ships stationed in a home sea zone and, unlike ships stationed at home, cannot be placed into a reduced state of readiness to cut costs.

[nimrod]

Thanks aeson, I appreciate the response. I had played Great Britain in the demo, but never in the full game.

I played my first full game as Germany on the "game budget setting" and I did hit parity or surpass GB and even the USA in the 1920's and 1930's. Do most people play on the "game budget" setting? I honestly forgot it existed.

I'm not sure what settings rimbecano is using, I'm assuming historical resources, but in the thread - nws-online.proboards.com/thread/5575/unrest - he noted: "Oh, they take a hit when a war ends, but they tend to rebound faster, especially Britain. I used to pass Britain as the US sometime in the 1920s, but now the postwar cuts are so drastic that they stay ahead of me consistently well into the thirties with the naval preeminence perk, and if I try to rebound aggressively after a war, I just end up triggering another one. And by the time I catch up, if I do, I reach a point in the mid to late thirties where the end of a war will bring me from a huge pool of saved money to complete insolvency within a few months, even with evening mothballed and scraping more than I can afford."

I've generally played with historical resources and 3rd from the largest fleets. GB fairly easily maintains at least 150% and very often around 200% my budget as Germany through the 1930's or early 1940's where it normally stabilizes around 150% of my budget. It is worse with Italy or Japan with England usually having at least double but sometimes triple as much funding as I do. GB also has had rough parity (think it is within + or - 20% ship to ship parity) with the USA through the 1950's in every game I've played with those settings. Seems they sink a lot of funds into AC and static defenses and I never pick a fight with GB or the USA.

In the funnies (un-intended humor section), I noted in my last game as Germany (1951) that my English counterpart was sacked for mismanaged budget allocations. I'm guessing that my play style and thus games don't match-up with others. In that game I had 152 prestige points in an un-modded / un-edited game in 1951. I like to keep tensions high and wars coming within a year or so of the last - this apparently leads to GB pre-eminence event firing with regularity once the USA's budget has kicked into high gear. I'll quote my self here in that 18 month war: "GB has been getting a lot of navy budget increases to keep pre-eminence (every two or three turns since the war with Italy started)...". From memory GB was at 1.5ish budget and USA had a 1.8 and Germany was at 0.8 budget.

Interesting on the station keeping tonnage. I'm always using KE's with some DD's outfitted for colony duties and then surge into other sea-zones once war is officially declared, or earlier if I'm spoiling for a fight with an empire out of my home sea zone. First game as France I had a very anemic B and CA with the rest being my station keeping KE / DD fleet - historical budget and default fleet size. That was 10 or so years of not stoking any tensions while working up some fighting CL's and CA's...

I'll bow out here and let the topic get back to the OP's question.