The Ottoman Empire and the Black Sea

[zoomar]

Since the Ottomans aren't a playable faction in RTW, I'd like to suggest that, in the next update, random events be generated that simulate the historical desire of European nations to carve the empire up and/or seize the Dardanelles and open up the Black Sea access to the Med.  In the current game, if you want to play Austria and Italy remotely like their actual counterparts, they are strictly Mediterranean powers and most of the geopolitical events the game generates are of little interest to them.  But if events related to potential European seizures of Turkish possessions in the middle east and eastern med came up, or the play were presented with the possibility of "restoring order" in Constantinople, these would certainly attract A-H or Italian interest as well as the interest of other countries that might intervene against you.  Seizing Constantinople would also open up the Black Sea and it could also become a theatre.  What do you all think? 

[sabratha]

Sept 18, 2015 11:42:27 GMT -6 zoomar said:

Since the Ottomans aren't a playable faction in RTW, I'd like to suggest that, in the next update, random events be generated that simulate the historical desire of European nations to carve the empire up and/or seize the Dardanelles and open up the Black Sea access to the Med.  In the current game, if you want to play Austria and Italy remotely like their actual counterparts, they are strictly Mediterranean powers and most of the geopolitical events the game generates are of little interest to them.  But if events related to potential European seizures of Turkish possessions in the middle east and eastern med came up, or the play were presented with the possibility of "restoring order" in Constantinople, these would certainly attract A-H or Italian interest as well as the interest of other countries that might intervene against you.  Seizing Constantinople would also open up the Black Sea and it could also become a theatre.  What do you all think? 

Well, Turkey can be added as a custom nation (I may in fact try wfiddling with custom nations later one).

[galagagalaxian]

Yeah, I already made a custom Turkey, and the latest patch allows custom nations to be used as adversaries. Someone could create a custom nation version of Italy and/or Austria-Hungary with the Ottomans as a rival.

[sabratha]

No probs at all. Will see if we can get Russia to have a Black sea base as well.

I'm sure I could add ports, though not sure if I will be able to add a new "region".

[galagagalaxian]

Creating a new region would require editing the Map.dat (or whatever its named) file.

I have given some thought to this myself while working on my Ottoman nation, but I realized that attempting to model the Black Sea for the Russians would be impractical because of some of RtW's mechanics. The biggest being that constructed ships are only built in the nation's "Home" region. Thus all Russian ships would be deposited in the Northern Europe region and any potential Black Sea Fleet would have to be transferred there. This would be rather impractical if one used the Canal system to model the Ottoman's control over Black Sea access similar to the Suez and Panama.

[gornik]

Sept 18, 2015 11:42:27 GMT -6 zoomar said:

Since the Ottomans aren't a playable faction in RTW, I'd like to suggest that, in the next update, random events be generated that simulate the historical desire of European nations to carve the empire up and/or seize the Dardanelles and open up the Black Sea access to the Med.  In the current game, if you want to play Austria and Italy remotely like their actual counterparts, they are strictly Mediterranean powers and most of the geopolitical events the game generates are of little interest to them.  But if events related to potential European seizures of Turkish possessions in the middle east and eastern med came up, or the play were presented with the possibility of "restoring order" in Constantinople, these would certainly attract A-H or Italian interest as well as the interest of other countries that might intervene against you.  Seizing Constantinople would also open up the Black Sea and it could also become a theatre.  What do you all think? 

If I am right, you suggest to add new battle area, not stretch Mediterranean [as it would be impossible to use passthrough restrictions in other way]. I dream about using Black Sea too, but see large problems:

First problem is Black Sea was "Russian lake" in that period, so theatre should be existed from the gamestart to allow Russia build something there. So there should be second shipbuilding zone [would be great to add such possibility, but now it is impossible]. And I don't know how good would be Russian AI with managing ships at closed theatre [possible, I think, but hard].

Second is that once Ottomans collapsed there should be immediate option for Russia to try capture the Straits (thing navy prepared for till Revolution). If it would be successful, everything is normal, though battles will take place in our well-known Med; but if not... Things would go weird due to game engine. New owner of straits should be able to blockade Russia even without any ships in area [impossible now]. Russians IRL may open the Straits with only their army, marching through Romania and Bulgaria, through Caucasus (as nearly happen in WWI) or performing first amphibian operation in the world (maybe-with Gallipoli result); and defender should keep large army to protect Constantinople [Where is place to navy here?]. And even when Tsargrad would be in Russian hands they may be blockaded in Mediterranean unless their fleet clear the sea [blockade projection through operational zones impossible now, I believe].

And last but not least: what interesting would find fleet which came to Black Sea? Russian home area with possessions Crimea, Georgia, Kuban and Novorossia, all untakeable or cost 10 VP each (It's place where Russia always prepare to fight since XVIII century). Bulgaria and Romania, neutral but untakeable by fleet. Trabazon and Zonguldak, only ones to capture. And possibility to stay there forever if Russia managed to capture Tsargrad by army...
That may be great operational wargame, but very different from what we have and far from naval theme So I think better is not to touch Black Sea, at least now.

[Fredrik W]

The Black Sea was considered but left out during the design stage for much the reasons Gornik mentions above. There were so many special considerations that simulating it would have added complication and delayed the game for little gain.