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Post by decourcy2 on Oct 23, 2015 15:11:06 GMT -6
Okay, after looking at other people's designs, I have to ask, does the game take into account the structural problems of having many deep well resonant cavities? Please say yes. Also, I would say the speeds/ton seems a bit high as I see way too many 1900 armoured cruisers doing 23-24 knots. I was hoping for a more clear cut reciprocating era vs a turbine era. 1900-1905 it should be very hard to develop much speed.
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Post by tbr on Oct 23, 2015 16:15:51 GMT -6
Yes, turbine propulsion should be a marked step, probaby with two to three 5% propulsion weight reducing technologies.
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Post by mikebrough on Oct 24, 2015 2:29:56 GMT -6
decourcy2, what are the problems of deep well resonant cavities? And what are 'deep well resonant cavities' in the first place? I tried googling the term but didn't come up with anything.
I'm guessing it's the top-to-bottom structure from cupola down to the foundations and I could guess that the problems are related to a hole being punched through the ship's structure but I'm curious as to whether there's any literature on the subject.
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Post by Fredrik W on Oct 24, 2015 3:40:02 GMT -6
The ship design logic does not take those into account. This is not springsharp and there are limits to how much realism can be put in.
I must admit I never heard of the term. Sounds like something you wouldn't want your dentist to find.
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Post by fredsanford on Oct 24, 2015 6:52:50 GMT -6
My guess is that "deep well resonant cavity" is some other language to English Google-translation hash.
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Post by decourcy2 on Oct 24, 2015 13:39:09 GMT -6
Deep well is in ship terms the turret well. A deep well is a structural area with no structure. The more of those you have in a structure, the weaker the structure is against shear, etc. Resonant cavity, the deep well can act as a resonant cavity, as can the turrets, large deck machine shops, aircraft hangers etc. They will resonate with the engine causing severe vibration in the ship affecting it's handling. The USS Washington was a great example of that problem.
I saw people posting designs with 14 large turrets, I suspect that ship would not be able to steam, it would shear as soon as it built up speed. I worked with naval architects and they knew the dangers of too many deep wells in a ship. Of course, these days it is not so important with all missile armaments.
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Post by Fredrik W on Oct 25, 2015 4:28:52 GMT -6
The number of turrets has since been limited. 14 heavy turrets was obviously unrealistic for a variety of reasons.
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Post by jdkbph on Oct 25, 2015 8:03:17 GMT -6
Okay, after looking at other people's designs, I have to ask, does the game take into account the structural problems of having many deep well resonant cavities? Please say yes. Also, I would say the speeds/ton seems a bit high as I see way too many 1900 armoured cruisers doing 23-24 knots. I was hoping for a more clear cut reciprocating era vs a turbine era. 1900-1905 it should be very hard to develop much speed. It is my understanding that the main difference between recips and turbines, operationally, was not necessarily related to top speeds, but to cruising speeds. For instance, you may find a knot or two difference in top speed between similar ships, one turbine, one recip... but the turbine will be able to cruise reliably* and economically at 70% - 80% top speed, while the recip cruises at 40% to 50% of top speed. *Recips running at high speed were much more susceptible to breakdown. JD
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Post by decourcy2 on Oct 25, 2015 9:28:04 GMT -6
jdkbph, I think you were writing this but I want to put it more plainly; reciprocating engines were extremely fuel inefficient above 15 knots.
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Post by garychildress on Oct 25, 2015 16:11:38 GMT -6
The number of turrets has since been limited. 14 heavy turrets was obviously unrealistic for a variety of reasons. Out of curiosity, what is the new limit on turret number? I would think 7 would be max seeing how that was the number on HMS Agincourt, maybe 8 if the player really wants to push it with a huge hull and relatively smaller caliber main guns or something.
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Post by tmp on Oct 25, 2015 20:00:06 GMT -6
Out of curiosity, what is the new limit on turret number? I would think 7 would be max seeing how that was the number on HMS Agincourt, maybe 8 if the player really wants to push it with a huge hull and relatively smaller caliber main guns or something.
Testing it quickly, 10 appears to be the limit: (adding one more turret in Q position produced "too many turrets" error) So, if one wanted to push it to the max, it's 32 guns on a single ship (quadruple turrets on the centerline, with wing turrets being limited to two guns per turret)
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Post by garychildress on Oct 25, 2015 22:24:50 GMT -6
I forgot about wing turrets, I suppose that's feasible (although I'm not a navy architect). How many turrets will it allow you to put on the centerline before giving you an "overcrowded centerline" message? I know with DDs I get that message a lot if I cram too much in the center. Not sure how BBs work, though.
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Post by JagdFlanker on Oct 26, 2015 4:26:00 GMT -6
...How many turrets will it allow you to put on the centerline before giving you an "overcrowded centerline" message? I know with DDs I get that message a lot if I cram too much in the center. Not sure how BBs work, though. as the game progresses you can research up to at least 5 centerline mounts
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Post by tbr on Oct 26, 2015 7:46:13 GMT -6
I forgot about wing turrets, I suppose that's feasible (although I'm not a navy architect). How many turrets will it allow you to put on the centerline before giving you an "overcrowded centerline" message? I know with DDs I get that message a lot if I cram too much in the center. Not sure how BBs work, though. That seems to depend on the tonnage of the ship in question, not on technology. The 5+ centreline tech enables designs by removing hard limits on the number of gun turrets but does not override soft limits such as crowded centerline which also concerns centerline torpedoes.
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Post by tmp on Oct 26, 2015 10:43:51 GMT -6
I forgot about wing turrets, I suppose that's feasible (although I'm not a navy architect). How many turrets will it allow you to put on the centerline before giving you an "overcrowded centerline" message? I know with DDs I get that message a lot if I cram too much in the center. Not sure how BBs work, though. You can have 6 without any issues, and adding a 7th will produce message about RoF penalty due to overcrowding. If you try to add 8th centerline turret that will change to "too many centerline turrets, design illegal" iirc.
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