AEW&C, CAP and setting patrol routes in DLC

[indy]

In 1944, Project Cadillac saw a TBM Avenger torpedo bomber modified to carry an airborne radar system to detect low flying aircraft beyond 100nm. This led to the development of the TBM-3W, the first production AEW aircraft to enter service fitted with the AN/APS-20 radar in March 1945.

I’d like to know how NWS plans to provide a suitable CAP, Scouting, and Patrol feature that will allow us to not only build a type of aircraft like this (which should also detect ships as well as planes and helicopters) but allow us to send an AWACS plane (Or any plane for ether matter) to an area and have it ‘loiter’ there for a time or conduct a route plan.

Just curious, because clearly this is a technology and ability well within the time frame of this simulation DLC. Thanks.

[wlbjork]

Yanks, late to the table again

Britain had already been using the Wellington bomber in this role since 1942, though the end of He-111 launched V1s pretty much killed the programme.

weaponsandwarfare.com/2020/05/22/vickers-wellington-bomber-airborne-early-warning-and-control-aircraft/

[nimrod]

It will be interesting to see if the plan is to introduce AWACS. I think I read that the AC mission interface / options were being looked into due to addition of Helicopters. I suspect that the rules for Helicopters would likely be applicable to AWACS or perhaps AWACS will be handled with something akin to revitalized float plane scouts.

[indy]

Feb 10, 2022 17:00:20 GMT -6 nimrod said:

I suspect that the rules for Helicopters would likely be applicable to AWACS or perhaps AWACS will be handled with something akin to revitalized float plane scouts.

Neither of those options allows for loitering on station to provide aerial radar interception of hostile aircraft. This game is all about naval warfare and nothing changed naval warfare more than the synergy between the carrier and her air wing being able to project power anywhere in the world at short notice. This really needs to be simulated properly, imo or else it leaves out the primary reason for carriers. There’s the Israeli ship that was first sunk by missiles, but the carrier and Awacs were of equal importance in how naval warfare shaped up after the end of the battleship era. Gotta do it justice.

[nimrod]

Feb 11, 2022 1:05:50 GMT -6 indy said:

Feb 10, 2022 17:00:20 GMT -6 nimrod said:

I suspect that the rules for Helicopters would likely be applicable to AWACS or perhaps AWACS will be handled with something akin to revitalized float plane scouts.

Neither of those options allows for loitering on station to provide aerial radar interception of hostile aircraft. This game is all about naval warfare and nothing changed naval warfare more than the synergy between the carrier and her air wing being able to project power anywhere in the world at short notice. This really needs to be simulated properly, imo or else it leaves out the primary reason for carriers. There’s the Israeli ship that was first sunk by missiles, but the carrier and Awacs were of equal importance in how naval warfare shaped up after the end of the battleship era. Gotta do it justice.

I think we are writing past one another on "loiter on station". I think actual helicopter game rules would heavily imply loiter code being added to the game. It very well may be under the hood, like automated SAR, but the code will take into account some level of loiter by the vary nature of a helicopter and SAR being added. 

Please forgive me for not being clear earlier. My point with in-game helicopter rules, is that according to the expansion catalog, page 6, helicopters on a carrier are assigned to a special squadron. I associate the special squadron rules as helicopter rules (as helicopters by their nature fly differently, loiter and otherwise require a radical departure of current game play rules). In my prior post I was properly referring to the unique rules of the special squadron. Page 5 notes that the special squadrons are mixed aircraft and that they cover the SAR, ASW, ECM roles. www.navalwarfare.net/files/SAI/RTW2_Expansion_Catalog.pdf Again, SAR would by its very definition imply some level of "loiter on station" code. 

To go out on a limb and be specific, I think the AWACS role is going to be handled mostly if not totally independently of the player within the special squadron... So, I don't think we will really be developing AWACS AC and specifically fielding or commanding them. But I think an in-game equivalent of AWACS will likely be operating under the special squadron code, in order to avoid micromanaging complaints and to simplify the game / battle scenario code. 

My fallback position, which I hope is true, is that float plane scout code which have a few special rules (single AC or very small squadrons, automatic launching / handling, I think early adoption of radar before FF, DB or TB, etc) may be easily adapted to the AWACS role... So I can see AWACS being brought in under that banner (code heritage) if developer wanted to expand Scout Planes and scouting role to include control. 


I do very much agree on the need to "do it justice", but I would quibble a little bit on the historical perspective. I believe what you wrote is true of the USN, but most of the smaller CV / CVL operating navies of the world really don't have a power projection doctrine like the USN and instead pursue a much more passive Fleet In Being approach. The Falkland war comes readily to mind, Argentina had a primary offensive force of a CVL and a CA and the British mainly used SSNs and put Harriers and helicopters on two cargo ships. Most sources claim that the Argentinian CA was much more dangerous than the CVL as the CVL had a very outdated airgroup and was unable to even launch its planes with a combat load unless there was natural wind over the deck... Point being, is that many of the smaller navies seem to use helicopter carriers and CVLs and even CVs as support rather than the primary strike force. Just FYI, a few nations use radar picket / AWACS helicopters, an example:  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamov_Ka-31.