|
|
Post by sjpc302 on May 26, 2023 20:21:08 GMT -6
There are some that seem to be complete downgrades in effectiveness.
Fleet cruising formation: The "core" behavior before this tech does everything I want it to. I can leave following divisions on AI core and they will be right behind me, where they are needed, maintaining a steady course with good firing solutions for guns and torpedoes. After this, they tend to basically wander off or maneuver so much they can't maintain a firing solution. I end up having to control every division manually.
Destroyer screen: While screen has some benefits in night battles, again they have a hard time finding a firing solution for guns or torpedoes due to maneuvering all over the place, ditching the battle formation they are meant to cover to run away or dump two dozen torpedoes into a dead ship way behind you. At least you can turn this one off manually.
Carrier force: After this tech is researched, you can't provide effective CAP for your battle divisions since you can't use the support division command for ships in another force. Ships on "Provide CAP to division" typically don't send anything at all, though I did see once carriers generously send one whole fighter to cover my battle divisions.
Circular AA screen: Allows BB to screen CV. The division editor makes this less of an issue, but if you don't set up your divisions you will have AA cruisers in the front line and your best battleships babysitting your carriers doing little if anything.
Carrier battle group concept: I haven't actually noticed this do anything yet. On principle though, having multiple carriers per division is important for coordinated strikes and AA coverage.
It would be nice if these were toggle options in the doctrine menu or something.
|
|
|
|
Post by Fredrik W on May 27, 2023 0:32:00 GMT -6
Fleet cruising formation reduces the risk of submarine attacks, that is why it was adopted by the Grand Fleet and later by the HSF (admittedly this should have been mentioned in the tech description). They will change to line ahead when enemy is sighted, but this can admittedly be a somewhat confused procedure.
In addition to the night battle benefit you mention, destroyers on screen are more likely to soak up or discover mines, and will to some extent protect heavy ships from submarine attacks.
The circular AA screen will position screening ships so that their AA fire is better used against aircraft attacking high value screened targets (like BB or CV).
Will consider a doctrine choice for carrier force. The usefulness of this probably depends on what level you play on. Having your carriers tagging along with the battleline can be highly risky on admirals mode, less so if you can control them yourself in captains mode. It is also a play style thing. The Japanese 'play style' often had separate advance, main and carrier forces.
|
|
|
|
Post by dorn on May 27, 2023 0:32:11 GMT -6
ad Destroyer screen - use order torpedo attack, they should run possibility to make good torpedo attack (note: it does mean they will every time succeed.) ad Carrier force - it depends how many fighters you have onboard at time you issue the command. If most of your fighters are with strike or are already airbone, there are almost none left for your new command. I would suggest doing it in advance and having lighter CAP till it is really needed. Another thing is that you usually get some carrier with your main force, it should be used to protect main force
ad Circular AA screen - but they historically do that in carrier battles. ;-) But you can always set orders to your division during battle.
|
|
|
|
Post by cormallen on May 27, 2023 2:38:34 GMT -6
I do rather agree that "Fleet Cruising" should be optional... It makes sense for massive "Grand Fleets" but is less obviously sensible for smaller forces? I sometimes manually edit the tech away in some of my super size games but that's not ideal either...
Also it would be great to be able to have your Flagship in the centre (as was standard tbh) rather than always having to be the very first Battleship? Would certainly make "Admiral's Mode" a more viable option?
|
|
|
|
Post by Fredrik W on May 27, 2023 4:25:23 GMT -6
I do rather agree that "Fleet Cruising" should be optional... It makes sense for massive "Grand Fleets" but is less obviously sensible for smaller forces? I sometimes manually edit the tech away in some of my super size games but that's not ideal either... Also it would be great to be able to have your Flagship in the centre (as was standard tbh) rather than always having to be the very first Battleship? Would certainly make "Admiral's Mode" a more viable option? That is a good idea, but would still require the player to give orders to the lead ship so it wouldn't be much of a difference. |
|
|
|
Post by cormallen on May 27, 2023 5:01:17 GMT -6
I do rather agree that "Fleet Cruising" should be optional... It makes sense for massive "Grand Fleets" but is less obviously sensible for smaller forces? I sometimes manually edit the tech away in some of my super size games but that's not ideal either... Also it would be great to be able to have your Flagship in the centre (as was standard tbh) rather than always having to be the very first Battleship? Would certainly make "Admiral's Mode" a more viable option? That is a good idea, but would still require the player to give orders to the lead ship so it wouldn't be much of a difference. I basically role play it as that in Captain's mode sometimes. |
|
|
|
Post by sjpc302 on May 27, 2023 7:19:41 GMT -6
ad Destroyer screen - use order torpedo attack, they should run possibility to make good torpedo attack (note: it does mean they will every time succeed.)
Screen also has many disadvantages in gun battles, but this is the least issue for me since I can just turn it off. ad Carrier force - it depends how many fighters you have onboard at time you issue the command. If most of your fighters are with strike or are already airbone, there are almost none left for your new command. I would suggest doing it in advance and having lighter CAP till it is really needed. Another thing is that you usually get some carrier with your main force, it should be used to protect main force
ad Circular AA screen - but they historically do that in carrier battles. ;-) But you can always set orders to your division during battle.
Screen also has many disadvantages in gun battles, and flotilla attack can be a little suicidal. Sometimes I just want my destroyers to sail line ahead, launch torpedoes at range to scare the enemy and shoot destroyers. This is the least issue for me since I can just do it manually. Unfortunately carriers in main force aren't that common in my experience, even if I allocate some specifically for that purpose in the division editor. The CAP provided by Support seems to be fairly consistent, though in some cases I would want ALL CAP from that carrier to go to the battle line since I have more carriers protecting the carriers themselves. There must be some difference between the allocation of CAP between "support" and "provide CAP to" because with the latter I have had trouble getting anything with carriers with 70% fighters. Circular AA screen - maybe they did it historically but if I want to reintegrate them into my battle line to attack the enemy it's difficult with them being in a different force. In WW2 it is my impression that they didn't really have a plan to actively use their battle line on contact with the enemy carriers, well I do. Division editing seems to mitigate this though, but I wish CLAA was prioritized to be there first. EDIT: Maybe my gripe with fleet cruising formation is more of a bug/implementation issue. I just caught one ship on AI core going full speed the opposite direction from its lead division 50nm away. I'm not even engaged. In principle, if they cruised parallel but went into line ahead under contact, and the line ahead was the same as core behavior before this tech, I would have no problems with it, but they get distracted and confused. |
|
|
|
Post by blarglol on May 27, 2023 14:31:09 GMT -6
In addition to the night battle benefit you mention, destroyers on screen are more likely to soak up or discover mines, and will to some extent protect heavy ships from submarine attacks. "Discover mines?" This is actually in the code? I have never seen this happen, only ships running into mines in battle.
|
|
