Heavy Gunned BBS, BCs start to be slightly* useful again 58

[serenity]

I have found *albeit I only have one complete 1890 to 1970 play through so far* that battleships with heavy guns become slightly useful again around 1958 when SAMs are able to shoot down missiles. When all you have available to counter missiles is radar guided medium AA and decoys battleships don’t seem to work well. 

They are useful in the sense that if you have very large caliber guns you can destroy straggling enemy ships from long range without expending valuable missiles. Plus with very large battleship guns you can somewhat stay out of missile range from the enemy main fleet.

Does anyone else have this experience?

[pratapon51]

Yes, it's not super uncommon. When you can field a lot of screening DDs and CLs with light and medium SAMs, you start finding mileage again for battleships because missile cruisers are mincemeat to them after the initial barrages are over.

They aren't so cost-efficient compared to simply building a ton more missile DDs, but if you want to keep them around or make new-build battleships... (You'll also notice the misc. equipment hull wt goes up past 1950 and the number of weight reduction techs reduces, so old hulls built at 1940 level tech actually have the most free space.)

[t3rm1dor]

Jun 4, 2023 8:23:02 GMT -6 serenity said:

I have found *albeit I only have one complete 1890 to 1970 play through so far* that battleships with heavy guns become slightly useful again around 1958 when SAMs are able to shoot down missiles. When all you have available to counter missiles is radar guided medium AA and decoys battleships don’t seem to work well. 

They are useful in the sense that if you have very large caliber guns you can destroy straggling enemy ships from long range without expending valuable missiles. Plus with very large battleship guns you can somewhat stay out of missile range from the enemy main fleet.

Does anyone else have this experience?

I did dominate against the french in a war in 1968, me (england) going very heavy on battleships against France that was going for a lot of carriers. Missiles do provide very effective protection against aircraft, and had  a few instances of my fast BB simply catching up to enemy carriers and sunking then. Although I find having cruisers with SAM's once they can be use for naval attack to be the most efficient package.

[cv10]

As the USN, I did a final run of eight 30-knot battleships with heavy armor in the early 1940s. With plenty of space for SAMs and HSSM launchers, they served as the core of my surface action groups until game end in 1970s. They did good work in missile engagements and provided the main firepower for finishing off enemy ships once the missiles ran out. They could take missile hits with relatively minor damage, but the huge caveat to this is that they seemed particularly vulnerable to fires started by missile hits. I didn't lose any of them, but it was a near thing on several occasions. Having the damage control special training likely saved them on a few occasions.

I found them well worth keeping around, but they are floating VP points for the enemy.

[dia]

I learned this the hard way in my first late game playthrough as China (1935 start). I thought I'd go with a fleet of small destroyers and a few light cruisers loaded out with missiles. Ended up in a convoy defense battle against a French force several times my size. After the initial barrage the French blob moved in and I had nothing to counter their 8 inch gun cruisers.

[t3rm1dor]

Jun 4, 2023 17:35:27 GMT -6 cv10 said:

As the USN, I did a final run of eight 30-knot battleships with heavy armor in the early 1940s. With plenty of space for SAMs and HSSM launchers, they served as the core of my surface action groups until game end in 1970s. They did good work in missile engagements and provided the main firepower for finishing off enemy ships once the missiles ran out. They could take missile hits with relatively minor damage, but the huge caveat to this is that they seemed particularly vulnerable to fires started by missile hits. I didn't lose any of them, but it was a near thing on several occasions. Having the damage control special training likely saved them on a few occasions.

I found them well worth keeping around, but they are floating VP points for the enemy.

Yes the fire thing is a bit strange, as three missiles hits in a row can create insanely big fires that wont be put out. That's why I find SAM so effective: they come with plentiful reloads and can destroy any ship. The other type of damage that I 've seen totally destroy BB with missiles has been waterline hits , two heavy SSM hits are enough to take down AoN 60000 ton BBs

[barleyman]

Jun 4, 2023 18:23:21 GMT -6 dia said:

I learned this the hard way in my first late game playthrough as China (1935 start). I thought I'd go with a fleet of small destroyers and a few light cruisers loaded out with missiles. Ended up in a convoy defense battle against a French force several times my size. After the initial barrage the French blob moved in and I had nothing to counter their 8 inch gun cruisers.

Run away, run away! Granted, missile range is artificially limited, but you can still fire your barrage and skedaddle. Let the merchants to their fate, you've done all you can and perhaps done some meaningful damage. 5x 3kt destroyers = 40x HSSM,that's going to ruin anyone's day.