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Post by imperatoraugust on Jun 6, 2023 19:44:18 GMT -6
Out of all the niche aspects that the series has explored, gun batteries are the least useful. Virtually untouched since RTW1 with the exception of minor adjustments it has largely been to extend to 'fortifications' beyond just guns. They are largely useless outside of colonial protection and extremely rare circumstance. In fact their most useful time is 1890/1900 because they actually have directors and mines are lethal. Things like harbor defense guns, small or artificial islands, much higher elevation of coastal guns, 15"+ guns, super charged rounds, actual application of land based torpedoes besides what exists in 6" guns. Among various other things.
Basically their range is too short, their accuracy is too low not long after the start, they are often placed in useless spots, their impact is limited when they do engage, their cost is too high, and the ai will just straight avoid them.
I think this could largely be solved by making it much more modable on how much the IDES actually allows. Many things cannot be touched. Adding new fortifications as well would be nice, and make their placement more relevant, I would have no problem filling it out myself.
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Post by pvtlarry99 on Jun 7, 2023 1:01:55 GMT -6
Yeah, I understand the reasoning for not letting players place batteries, but after playing the game a few weeks I feel like ultimately it would have been preferable. As things are it feels like there's little sense in dumping resources into them.
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Post by cormallen on Jun 7, 2023 3:08:48 GMT -6
Yeah, I understand the reasoning for not letting players place batteries, but after playing the game a few weeks I feel like ultimately it would have been preferable. As things are it feels like there's little sense in dumping resources into them. I feel your pain! In truth though the games limited number of mission locations would in practical terms allow some really lethal kill zones to emerge. Playing as GB I'd happily build multiple big forts on the South and East coasts of England and in the Bay of Fundy in Canada as I've seen so many fights there. Malta and Gibraltar on the other hand, famous and historically fortified choke points rarely see much close action... I RP being a big Imperial power by building batteries in most of my colonies anyway, and they really do seem to muffle rebellion! |
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Post by wlbjork on Jun 7, 2023 11:32:31 GMT -6
It's too easy to get hooked on the active aspect of the forts (shelling and minefields) and not consider the passive aspect.
The presence of forts can delay invasions as the enemy has to plan around them.
Once the enemy has landed, forts can hold up the enemy advance.
Both of these passive factors mean that they can save a territory from capture by your opponent either by defeating them outright or by allowing your colony to survive until a peace deal is achieved.
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Post by imperatoraugust on Jun 7, 2023 18:47:18 GMT -6
It's too easy to get hooked on the active aspect of the forts (shelling and minefields) and not consider the passive aspect. The presence of forts can delay invasions as the enemy has to plan around them. Once the enemy has landed, forts can hold up the enemy advance. Both of these passive factors mean that they can save a territory from capture by your opponent either by defeating them outright or by allowing your colony to survive until a peace deal is achieved. I've played probably 40 full games across the series and various others that have not completed. I can count on one hand how many times I've lost a colony I actually wanted to defend, even as China. You can stop an invasion my simply killing a number of landing craft. You are protected for a 1/4 of the year, and having a somewhat comparable fleet stops it.
I've actually had motor torpedo boats have large impacts on invasion battles, never forts.
Not only that but 6 4 inch batteries give you the maximum level of resistance. Which is orders of magnitude cheaper than a 14in turreted battery.
Then you have historical things like German 16" guns focused around the strategic and logical crossing points in the Atlantic wall.
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Post by imperatoraugust on Jun 7, 2023 18:52:42 GMT -6
Yeah, I understand the reasoning for not letting players place batteries, but after playing the game a few weeks I feel like ultimately it would have been preferable. As things are it feels like there's little sense in dumping resources into them. I feel your pain! In truth though the games limited number of mission locations would in practical terms allow some really lethal kill zones to emerge. Playing as GB I'd happily build multiple big forts on the South and East coasts of England and in the Bay of Fundy in Canada as I've seen so many fights there. Malta and Gibraltar on the other hand, famous and historically fortified choke points rarely see much close action... I RP being a big Imperial power by building batteries in most of my colonies anyway, and they really do seem to muffle rebellion! I'm not even saying let me place them... but so many games I've had batteries placed that are so far removed from being important. Albania is an AMAZING choice because no matter where they are placed they funnel forces. Hokaido can be good for a similar reason, as well as being a common BG location. Manilla can be amazing because they can cover most of the bay from surprise attacks.
Everywhere else its a crap shoot and most battles won't even come near the coast.
They should more so just spawn in logical locations or focus the locations down. Even put a cap if you want. Like If I build fortifications in Turkey, most of them should end up in the Dardanelles or whatever strait.
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Post by Enderminion on Jun 9, 2023 15:19:11 GMT -6
Fully half the batteries built in Panama will always be worthless, because they get placed on the Pacific side, I don't even think you can get a battle on the Pacific side of Panama
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Post by wlbjork on Jun 9, 2023 23:36:35 GMT -6
I've played probably 40 full games across the series and various others that have not completed. I can count on one hand how many times I've lost a colony I actually wanted to defend, even as China. You can stop an invasion my simply killing a number of landing craft. You are protected for a 1/4 of the year, and having a somewhat comparable fleet stops it. I've actually had motor torpedo boats have large impacts on invasion battles, never forts. Not only that but 6 4 inch batteries give you the maximum level of resistance. Which is orders of magnitude cheaper than a 14in turreted battery. Then you have historical things like German 16" guns focused around the strategic and logical crossing points in the Atlantic wall. I've played probably 100+ and - considering the message was only added comparatively recently - had the 'our forts have delayed the enemies invasion plans' fire several times. I've also had the 'our forts have slowed the enemy advance' message fire multiple times. Peace treaties in the middle of an colony battle stop the invasion right there. Fortifications can easily drag the invasion out to a year or more, massively increasing the chance of a peace deal during that time scale. |
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Post by imperatoraugust on Jun 10, 2023 11:18:15 GMT -6
I mean usually I just sink the enemy fleet and win land support battles.
However by tonnage only a fraction of batteries historically were for colonial holdings. Most and even those were focused around strategic harbors and choke points.
That or be the US who had plans to build 38 16 inch gun batteries across the US during WW2.
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