Can't reduce guns per turret in a refit

[corgi]

If you rebuild a ship with triple turrets 6" or larger, you can replace them with double turrets of a different size, but you aren't allowed to replace them with double turrets of the same size. So if I have a ship with triple 6" turrets, I can change them to double 4", 5", 7", or 8", but not to double 6" (unless I rebuilt it to double 8" first, I guess). The error message is something about not being able to change guns per turret, but it doesn't really make sense when the game does let me change the guns per turret from 3x6" to 2x8".

It seems like you should be free to reduce the number of guns in a turret, the restriction on adding new 6" or larger guns in double turrets should only come into play if there wasn't a larger turret in the same position already.

[dorn]

Jun 6, 2023 21:58:45 GMT -6 corgi said:

If you rebuild a ship with triple turrets 6" or larger, you can replace them with double turrets of a different size, but you aren't allowed to replace them with double turrets of the same size. So if I have a ship with triple 6" turrets, I can change them to double 4", 5", 7", or 8", but not to double 6" (unless I rebuilt it to double 8" first, I guess). The error message is something about not being able to change guns per turret, but it doesn't really make sense when the game does let me change the guns per turret from 3x6" to 2x8".

It seems like you should be free to reduce the number of guns in a turret, the restriction on adding new 6" or larger guns in double turrets should only come into play if there wasn't a larger turret in the same position already.

This is correct, you can change turrets to another ones but only with same barbette. So the double 6" turrets will weight almost same to fit same barbette.  ;-) And you cannot use your standard double turrets which will complicate things further. For that reason game allows only replacing turrets with similar needs for barbette so either more guns with lower caliber or less guns with larger caliber.

It is always much better remove one of your turrets completely.

[corgi]

Jun 7, 2023 9:35:48 GMT -6 dorn said:

Jun 6, 2023 21:58:45 GMT -6 corgi said:

If you rebuild a ship with triple turrets 6" or larger, you can replace them with double turrets of a different size, but you aren't allowed to replace them with double turrets of the same size. So if I have a ship with triple 6" turrets, I can change them to double 4", 5", 7", or 8", but not to double 6" (unless I rebuilt it to double 8" first, I guess). The error message is something about not being able to change guns per turret, but it doesn't really make sense when the game does let me change the guns per turret from 3x6" to 2x8".

It seems like you should be free to reduce the number of guns in a turret, the restriction on adding new 6" or larger guns in double turrets should only come into play if there wasn't a larger turret in the same position already.

This is correct, you can change turrets to another ones but only with same barbette. So the double 6" turrets will weight almost same to fit same barbette.  ;-) And you cannot use your standard double turrets which will complicate things further. For that reason game allows only replacing turrets with similar needs for barbette so either more guns with lower caliber or less guns with larger caliber.

It is always much better remove one of your turrets completely.

I see what you're saying, but that's not how the restriction works in the ship designer. I can replace triple 12" turrets with double 6", if for some reason I want to (I could replace them with single 6", but I suppose you can also add new single 6" turrets in a rebuild). If I rebuild a CA with triple 8", I can replace them with double 6", 7", 9", or 10", just not with double 8". If it's about keeping the barbette the same size I should only be able to replace them with double 9" or 10", right?

Most of the time it makes sense to remove a turret, but double 6" turrets can be DP and triple can't so I've actually tried to do that rebuild.

[dorn]

The small caliber guns have relaxed rules. Smaller guns are freely available as they are not considered difficult to rebuilt.

Eg. HMS Enterprise had installed double 6" mounting as experimental one later used on Leanders.


But game show you what rebuilts are available ...

[corgi]

Sorry, I don't think I'm being clear. It's a different issue than what I was talking about in the first post.

Here's a BC with triple 13" turrets:



The following rebuild, replacing the triple 13" turrets with double 8", is allowed:


This one, replacing them with double 13", is not:


The barbettes aren't the issue here, since a double 13" turret would be closer to the size of a triple 13" turret than a double 8" turret would.

The ship designer will allow replacing the turrets with doubles anywhere from 6" to 17", or singles anywhere from 6" to 20", except for 13". From what you're saying, neither of these rebuilds should be allowed and I should only be able to replace the 13" triples with larger doubles. It looks like the ship designer is forgetting to apply the barbette size rule when you reduce the gun caliber.

But game show you what rebuilts are available ...

Not quite. Here's what it shows when I try to rebuild the triple 13" turret:


The way the ship designer actually works, the dialog is incorrect because I cannot rebuild it to a 13" turret with 1 or 2 guns. The way you're saying it's intended to work, the dialog is incorrect because I should only be able to rebuild it to a 14-20" 1 gun turret or a 14-17" 2 gun turret. This is of course not a big problem for the battlecruiser because why would I rebuild it to a 13" double turret instead of removing a turret, but it actually matters for 6" gun cruisers because triple turrets can't be DP.

[williammiller]

I'll point Fredrik W towards this thread and see what he thinks - thank you for the report corgi.