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Post by brucesim2003 on May 10, 2016 5:33:14 GMT -6
Ok I've brought this up before, only to get some stupid half-assed f***wit comment from the devs. We NEED a pop up when a ship falls out of line. I just had the 2nd battlecruiser (out of 2) fall out of line for literally NO reason. It was undamaged (it hadn't even been hit). and the lead ship was NOT turning. by the time I realised the 2nd BC was out of position, I simply couldn't get it back in line. Instead of getting into line ahead, it was behaving as if it were still in division, and the division had turn together ticked. I put it under manual, and it was fine (though it refused to reattach), but as soon as I put it under ai it resumed the turn together behavior.
I haven't posted here in a while b/c the last time I asked for this, as I said above, the dev came up with a smart-assed answer which made me see red. Not to mention it was flat out wrong. Sure the lookouts and admiral's staff will just keep quiet. Who needs to do their job and made sure the admiral knows what his ships are doing. If a BC captain detached as above he would have a pretty big please explain!
As I've said before, it seems the team here are willing to give the illusion of listening, but if any requests are at variance with their preconceived ideas, well, sarcastic answers ahoy!
The answer from Frederik that made me see red:
Hypothetical destroyer flotilla commander to his captains after Jutland:
"Can I please get a message when a ship detaches? Better yet, ask permission. I've lost count of the number of times a ship has detached (often with NO VALID REASON) and I've not realised it until it has fallen considerably behind the squadron it is supposed to be part of."
My retort to that is what was the lookouts on the flotilla leader doing? Sleeping? Being seasick? Browsing a game manual to see if they should tell the Captain (D) that one of his destroyers has fallen out?
This game has worn me down with a lot of things happening that simply would not, but dropping out of line happens FAR too frequently.
Maybe I should write it of as an exercise in frustration and a waste of money.
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Post by oldpop2000 on May 10, 2016 8:07:16 GMT -6
Whoa, It's a darn game, mate. It's entertainment, nothing more nothing less. Ships will fall out of line due to many reasons, none of which have anything to do with gunfire damage. Sometimes equipment fails, sometimes weather conditions are so bad that you can't see your fingers in front of your face. At Guadalcanal, even with TBS, the destroyers escorting Washington and South Dakota got out of line, and were two were lost.
It would be impossible to program into a simple game, run on a PC all the nuances of a naval battle, there isn't enough memory or hard disk space. another problem is that testing cannot not find every little issue that might not be entirely correct, there just isn't time. You have to deploy the game, and then address each issue in priority. I sympathize with you, there are occurrences in all games, that can drive you up a wall, but you have to just enjoy what the game brings to you; fun, fun, fun. One of the issues that gets me incensed, are the people during historical discussions, that use their game playing to prove an historical point; Doesn't work, games are entertainment no matter how well programmed and this game is well programmed except for the constant error messages in Version 1.26 .
Let's all contribute the problems that we perceive in our game playing to the team, and they will, time and money permitting, fix them all. I've been around this team a long time, they do a good job. Sorry to hear your frustrations, I just save the game or resign, then start up a new one the next day.
Enjoy, my friend
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Post by srndacful on May 10, 2016 9:21:33 GMT -6
For me, it's all a part of the draw of playing in the Admiral's (aka frustration ahoy) mode. All of the generals and admirals in history had to deal with the big C3I - Chaos, Confusion, Cowardice and Incompetence, and IMHO, there's no one better than the AI to simulate all the $#/t going on in battle. Your job as Admiral is to take the $#/t handed to you and turn it into victory (or at least not defeat) by any means possible.
Cheers!
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Post by williammiller on May 10, 2016 10:21:14 GMT -6
Ok I've brought this up before, only to get some stupid half-assed f***wit comment from the devs. We NEED a pop up when a ship falls out of line. I just had the 2nd battlecruiser (out of 2) fall out of line for literally NO reason. It was undamaged (it hadn't even been hit). and the lead ship was NOT turning. by the time I realised the 2nd BC was out of position, I simply couldn't get it back in line. Instead of getting into line ahead, it was behaving as if it were still in division, and the division had turn together ticked. I put it under manual, and it was fine (though it refused to reattach), but as soon as I put it under ai it resumed the turn together behavior. I haven't posted here in a while b/c the last time I asked for this, as I said above, the dev came up with a smart-assed answer which made me see red. Not to mention it was flat out wrong. Sure the lookouts and admiral's staff will just keep quiet. Who needs to do their job and made sure the admiral knows what his ships are doing. If a BC captain detached as above he would have a pretty big please explain! As I've said before, it seems the team here are willing to give the illusion of listening, but if any requests are at variance with their preconceived ideas, well, sarcastic answers ahoy! The answer from Frederik that made me see red: Hypothetical destroyer flotilla commander to his captains after Jutland: "Can I please get a message when a ship detaches? Better yet, ask permission. I've lost count of the number of times a ship has detached (often with NO VALID REASON) and I've not realised it until it has fallen considerably behind the squadron it is supposed to be part of." My retort to that is what was the lookouts on the flotilla leader doing? Sleeping? Being seasick? Browsing a game manual to see if they should tell the Captain (D) that one of his destroyers has fallen out? This game has worn me down with a lot of things happening that simply would not, but dropping out of line happens FAR too frequently. Maybe I should write it of as an exercise in frustration and a waste of money.
We have been all over this same exact ill-mannered complaint series from you before, and I am not going to allow a repeat of the whole fruitless exercise with you again.
If you wish to discuss things with a bit of decorum and respect then I have no issue - but if you do not cease with the "half-assed f***wit" comments directed towards Fredrik you will find yourself banned sooner rather than later. You should consider this as a warning.
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Post by klavohunter on May 10, 2016 10:56:31 GMT -6
It is quite frustrating in the early-game to see your Battleships falling out of formation, or to see the squadrons behind the flagship lag far, far behind, when they can go the same speed as the flagship. At least it is satisfying to break up the AI's much-better-organized fleets and sink their predreadnoughts with all these handicaps against you.
My strategy to mitigate this in my current France playthrough is to go for maximum-speed predreadnoughts to outmaneuver the enemy. Despite the average German battleship having at least 2" of armor on my battleships, the 4-knot advantage has let me chase down the enemy when it suits me, and to cut their fleet apart when the opportunity is presented.
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Post by randomizer on May 10, 2016 11:07:42 GMT -6
Maintaining a one or two knot stationing reserve does much to mitigate this very real phenomenon of machine-age naval warfare in the game. That is to say formation speed should always be 1-2 knots less than the speed of the slowest ship in the formation.
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Post by brucesim2003 on May 10, 2016 11:35:11 GMT -6
Ok I've brought this up before, only to get some stupid half-assed f***wit comment from the devs. We NEED a pop up when a ship falls out of line. I just had the 2nd battlecruiser (out of 2) fall out of line for literally NO reason. It was undamaged (it hadn't even been hit). and the lead ship was NOT turning. by the time I realised the 2nd BC was out of position, I simply couldn't get it back in line. Instead of getting into line ahead, it was behaving as if it were still in division, and the division had turn together ticked. I put it under manual, and it was fine (though it refused to reattach), but as soon as I put it under ai it resumed the turn together behavior. I haven't posted here in a while b/c the last time I asked for this, as I said above, the dev came up with a smart-assed answer which made me see red. Not to mention it was flat out wrong. Sure the lookouts and admiral's staff will just keep quiet. Who needs to do their job and made sure the admiral knows what his ships are doing. If a BC captain detached as above he would have a pretty big please explain! As I've said before, it seems the team here are willing to give the illusion of listening, but if any requests are at variance with their preconceived ideas, well, sarcastic answers ahoy! The answer from Frederik that made me see red: Hypothetical destroyer flotilla commander to his captains after Jutland: "Can I please get a message when a ship detaches? Better yet, ask permission. I've lost count of the number of times a ship has detached (often with NO VALID REASON) and I've not realised it until it has fallen considerably behind the squadron it is supposed to be part of." My retort to that is what was the lookouts on the flotilla leader doing? Sleeping? Being seasick? Browsing a game manual to see if they should tell the Captain (D) that one of his destroyers has fallen out? This game has worn me down with a lot of things happening that simply would not, but dropping out of line happens FAR too frequently. Maybe I should write it of as an exercise in frustration and a waste of money.
We have been all over this same exact ill-mannered complaint series from you before, and I am not going to allow a repeat of the whole fruitless exercise with you again.
If you wish to discuss things with a bit of decorum and respect then I have no issue - but if you do not cease with the "half-assed f***wit" comments directed towards Fredrik you will find yourself banned sooner rather than later. You should consider this as a warning.
I did have 'decorum and respect' the 1st time I posted on the topic. And then I got a smart-assed reply from Fredrik (apologies for miss-spelling his name before) which got my dander up. When I reacted to that, the mods responded to half my post and ignored the actual context of my anger. As far as I'm concerned, you need not ban me. Just delete my account. I've had it with the ignorance displayed here. It seems the staff can be jerks, bug god help any customer that reacts to it. The team obviously doesn't recognise when a person is getting EXTREMELY frustrated.
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Post by williammiller on May 10, 2016 11:43:25 GMT -6
We have been all over this same exact ill-mannered complaint series from you before, and I am not going to allow a repeat of the whole fruitless exercise with you again.
If you wish to discuss things with a bit of decorum and respect then I have no issue - but if you do not cease with the "half-assed f***wit" comments directed towards Fredrik you will find yourself banned sooner rather than later. You should consider this as a warning.
I did have 'decorum and respect' the 1st time I posted on the topic. And then I got a smart-assed reply from Fredrik (apologies for miss-spelling his name before) which got my dander up. When I reacted to that, the mods responded to half my post and ignored the actual context of my anger. As far as I'm concerned, you need not ban me. Just delete my account. I've had it with the ignorance displayed here. It seems the staff can be jerks, bug god help any customer that reacts to it. The team obviously doesn't recognise when a person is getting EXTREMELY frustrated.
Done. Account disabled for 60 days - you can still PM if you wish to discuss this further.
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Post by andyhall on May 10, 2016 12:29:02 GMT -6
"STAY IN BLOODY LINE!" is exactly the right reaction to have when role-playing a squadron commander in action, when the third ship in your battle line puts the helm hard over and heads off to God-knows-where. Directed at the game developers, though, it's not so appropriate. One of the things I like about the SaI/RJW/RtW system is that it throws all sorts of unexpected (but historically realistic) problems at the player. Read up on virtually any major naval action and over the last 200 years and you'll see misread (or ignored) signals, mechanical breakdowns at critical moments, unexplained maneuvers, and the like. That's just real life; if that sort of event in the game is off-putting, there are other alternatives.
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Post by oldpop2000 on May 10, 2016 13:23:09 GMT -6
"STAY IN BLOODY LINE!" is exactly the right reaction to have when role-playing a squadron commander in action. Directed at the game developers, not so appropriate. One of the things I like about the SaI/RJW/RtW system is that it throws all sorts of unexpected (but historically realistic) problems at the player. Read up on virtually any major naval action and over the last 200 years and you'll see misread (or ignored) signals, mechanical breakdowns at critical moments, unexplained maneuvers, and the like. That's just real life; if that sort of event in the game is off-putting, there are other alternatives. It's called the "fog of war".
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Post by flyingtoaster on May 10, 2016 13:29:13 GMT -6
Just read up a bit on Beatty's flag lieutenant if you want to get an idea of how "well" some staffers did their jobs.
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Post by oldpop2000 on May 10, 2016 14:04:59 GMT -6
Just read up a bit on Beatty's flag lieutenant if you want to get an idea of how "well" some staffers did their jobs. I assume you are referring to Lt. Commander Ralph Seymour, who Beatty later said he lost three battles for him. Here is an interesting clip:
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Post by director on May 10, 2016 14:24:24 GMT -6
Or check out the Russian 'formation' at Tsushima.
Manuevering fleets that can steam at 18+ knots is ... problematic... when all you have is signal flags and a 'follow me' default mode.
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Post by arminpfano on May 10, 2016 15:37:48 GMT -6
An easy solution for this problem: Play the German navy. Either it is coded or parametered this way, or I had a lot of luck: My German vessels behave very well up to now and very rarely loose their intended course. And as we all know since the VW Gieselgate: German machinery never fails! If something is wrong, it is INTENDED to fail!!!
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Post by tmp on May 10, 2016 17:49:10 GMT -6
Maintaining a one or two knot stationing reserve does much to mitigate this very real phenomenon of machine-age naval warfare in the game. That is to say formation speed should always be 1-2 knots less than the speed of the slowest ship in the formation. That's indeed been the case in my experience, and it makes quite a lot of sense -- as it's pretty optimistic to expect a ship be able to steam at its top theoretical speed for hours, especially if it's coal powered and/or early design. So leaving some margin for errors and/or failures helps.
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