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Post by andyhall on May 10, 2016 18:52:35 GMT -6
"Or check out the Russian 'formation' at Tsushima."  Rozhestvensky didn't really bother with a battle formation. His fleet was ill-trained to begin with, and he had neither the coal nor ammunition to invest in tactical fleet exercises or gunnery during his long trip to the Far East. He didn't have planning meetings before the battle with his commanders, nor establish a rendezvous in case his fleet was scattered. He even ignored his subordinate flag officers' seniority and ordered that command of the overall fleet, should Suvorov be sunk or disabled, be passed to the next ship in line. Rozhestvensky and his men were personally very brave, but the Russian Second Pacific Squadron at Tsushima was a disorganized mess, and he knew it. |
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Post by zardoz on May 11, 2016 1:55:41 GMT -6
To be honest, for me this "staying in line"-problem is part of the realism and I like it.
As mentioned above, there are many examples in naval history where communication with flag signals caused many problems.
Of course, when one of my Bs turn in direction to the enemy DD-bunch and drives directly in it, I could scream "wturscbgafgzfvfgakgfb", however, a minute later I think, I would have definitely less fun NOT to have those realistic problemes.
And you can handle it ... as mentioned above ... a bit less speed and the probabilty is decreased and then, your well organised and massed force can crunch the chaotic enemy one by one ...
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chz
Junior Member
Posts: 83 
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Post by chz on May 11, 2016 5:07:12 GMT -6
Although the video is in the context of World of Warships, the video creator gives a long talk about the journey of the Baltic Fleet to the Pacific. After hearing that story, you'll be in no doubt that the Russians never had the slightest chance of victory. www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMi0dgLMydo |
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Post by director on May 11, 2016 8:54:45 GMT -6
'Staying in line' has another component:
Blind obedience when it is the wrong thing to do. See Tryon, Admiral George. Google pics of HMS Victoria stuck nose-down in the Mediterranean Sea bottom (the strangest wreck I've ever seen).
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Post by klavohunter on May 12, 2016 9:23:47 GMT -6
If it's any consolation, the AI is completely heartless and will abandon damaged battleships that lose speed and fall out of line, and will do next to nothing to maintain a formation and defend the cripples.  This is a complete contrast to their perfect formations at the start of a battle. I managed to sink 8 Italian battleships for only 2 of mine last night after completely shattering their formation with a reckless charge in a night battle. My own fleet also broke apart in the chaos, but my ships managed to stay in their squadrons and hunt down single lost, panicking Italians. |
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Post by andyhall on May 12, 2016 9:57:42 GMT -6
Although the video is in the context of World of Warships, the video creator gives a long talk about the journey of the Baltic Fleet to the Pacific. After hearing that story, you'll be in no doubt that the Russians never had the slightest chance of victory. www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMi0dgLMydo The author of this video is Paul Charlton, better known as "The Mighty Jingles," who's one of the best-known gamers posting to YouTube. As I understand, he's also a Royal Navy veteran himself. |
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Post by director on May 12, 2016 11:53:19 GMT -6
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Post by dickturpin on May 12, 2016 13:11:38 GMT -6
The "problem" is that the wargamer often tends to conflate published data on warship speed with how fast a ship can travel and also assumes that a squadron can maneuver at maximum speed. Reality is that published speed data is theoretical or based upon a trial for a new ship with full (or more than full) rested crew under calm conditions with high quality coal. Actual sea speed will depend upon the size of ship, age, quality of coal, condition of machinery, freeboard etc. etc. Attempting to travel and maneuver at maximum squadron speed will disorganise a formation.
The game falls somewhere between the two extremes and punishes the gamer who adopts un-historic tactics to some extent.
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Post by andyhall on May 12, 2016 13:38:31 GMT -6
. . . and punishes the gamer who adopts un-historic tactics to some extent. Rightly so. That's the sort of point where games and simulations part company.  |
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Post by randomizer on May 12, 2016 14:14:02 GMT -6
Ah, yes. this would appear to be the wreck of HMS Victoria, the RN's lawn dart off the Levant... |
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Post by andyhall on May 12, 2016 15:36:38 GMT -6
FWIW, I've been pleased with the AI's efforts to keep my own forces in line and in good order, provided the van doesn't pour on the coal and leave the other divisions struggling to keep up. For me, that feature of the game goes a long way toward recreating the effect of being the admiral in charge -- you give basic maneuvering commands to the lead division, and the other divisions -- battleships, cruisers, destroyers -- generally do their thing in response. As it should be.
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Post by marcorossolini on May 13, 2016 10:42:02 GMT -6
. . . and punishes the gamer who adopts un-historic tactics to some extent. Rightly so. That's the sort of point where games and simulations part company. Amazing... how did you find that photo of my most recent battle!  Totally fine with the situation as it is now, I get enough pop ups already, between the sinking, ships torpedoed etc, one more pop up isn't needed. Plus, it's historical, both for it happening and the admiral etc not noticing (kind of) |
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This is a complete contrast to their perfect formations at the start of a battle.
