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Post by oldpop2000 on Sept 18, 2016 9:32:30 GMT -6
I completely agree. At the First Battle of Savo Island, the Japanese had eight warships and we had seventeen all total, but at the point of attack, the Allied Southern force had only five ships, the Northern group had only five ships. There were extenuating circumstances but at the point of attack, they outnumbered ours.
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Post by trenton59 on Sept 18, 2016 9:55:37 GMT -6
Oh I'm aware that it's realistic that I don't always have even numerical parity, but in my last three campaigns, I've had a total of around twenty or so cruiser battles, of them, only in four did I have numerical parity, one where I had superiority, and a few more where the enemy must have turned around immediately, as I thought while playing that I had parity, only to find at the end screen, that the AI had an extra squadron or two of cruisers that never showed up to fight, in the remaining battles, I had no less than five occasions where the enemy had at least one squadron of battleships, cruisers, or battlecruisers that did engage.
While its almost certainly just a run of bad luck, it does lead to a certain cynicism.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Sept 18, 2016 10:10:00 GMT -6
Oh I'm aware that it's realistic that I don't always have even numerical parity, but in my last three campaigns, I've had a total of around twenty or so cruiser battles, of them, only in four did I have numerical parity, one where I had superiority, and a few more where the enemy must have turned around immediately, as I thought while playing that I had parity, only to find at the end screen, that the AI had an extra squadron or two of cruisers that never showed up to fight, in the remaining battles, I had no less than five occasions where the enemy had at least one squadron of battleships, cruisers, or battlecruisers that did engage. While its almost certainly just a run of bad luck, it does lead to a certain cynicism. I've had those same things happen to me, but I just remember that it is what you don't know, that will get you in trouble. Lack of intelligence has cost more battles in history, and it appears that it works in RTW also. That's probably a good thing, I guess.
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Post by trenton59 on Sept 18, 2016 10:19:02 GMT -6
True, although thinking about it, what were those cruisers doing? The ones that were in the battles but never showed up I mean. Usually there's enough of them to equal my own force, and most of those battles ended with an hours long stern chase, so I wonder what the AI was doing with them.
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Post by jwsmith26 on Sept 18, 2016 11:08:12 GMT -6
True, although thinking about it, what were those cruisers doing? The ones that were in the battles but never showed up I mean. Usually there's enough of them to equal my own force, and most of those battles ended with an hours long stern chase, so I wonder what the AI was doing with them. The AI was probably doing the same thing we do when we accept one of those convoy or coastal defense missions, that is steaming around desperately trying to find enemy ships, any enemy ships (only to get reports that they are sinking a convoy that is 2 hours of steaming away). You see the same thing happen with friendly support forces. Sometimes they find the action, more often they're off over the horizon doing whatever. BTW, I have no problem with the enemy forces being far different in strength from my own or from the predicted force size. It makes the game far more interesting when you see that massive line of battleships appearing out of the haze when you were expecting an easy win. Admirals were constantly surprised by enemy force composition even in WWII when intelligence had announced that an enemy force was approaching and aircraft had spotted the force and reported on their composition (with amazing inaccuracy). In the time frame the game covers, knowledge of what enemy forces were at sea was even more limited. One thing I'd point out about accepting or declining battles is that the number of battles offered does vary. I've seen many instances where only one battle is offered so if you don't accept that battle you get none for that month. Typically you'll get several offers though.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Sept 18, 2016 11:09:56 GMT -6
True, although thinking about it, what were those cruisers doing? The ones that were in the battles but never showed up I mean. Usually there's enough of them to equal my own force, and most of those battles ended with an hours long stern chase, so I wonder what the AI was doing with them. I can't really say what the extra cruisers were doing. It is possible that it was a force assigned by the AI to the attacking force but left late from their port or was already at sea, and were redirected from their current mission to join the battle fleet. Hard to know, and that is why intelligence using scouts is important. One thing I pay attention to, is who is scouting? If I am on a convoy or a coastal attack, if I meet cruisers in an advanced scouting position, in other words, basically like the old cavalry. One cruiser to each flank and one out in front. Then I am certain this is a sucker play and his whole fleet is waiting for me. At that point, I turn around and head out at flank speed. In the German versus French wars, if you get a mission to go southwest down the coast to the Channel, beware, the whole French fleet is waiting for you to get to the Dover Straits. Don't go in, turn around and make them chase you to the minefields. They usually don't but once in a while you can sucker them into it.
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Post by julianbarker on Sept 18, 2016 14:10:37 GMT -6
I find the uneven battles where I am at a disadvantage the most challenging and most enjoyable. When defending a convoy against a superior enemy I get a thrill out of distracting the enemy and drawing them away from the convoy then sliping off into the night etc. Even if I don't get a great score I can keep the losses to a minimum. I dont really care whether I get more or fewer points than declining as I play to play.
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Post by axe99 on Sept 18, 2016 16:02:14 GMT -6
True, although thinking about it, what were those cruisers doing? The ones that were in the battles but never showed up I mean. Usually there's enough of them to equal my own force, and most of those battles ended with an hours long stern chase, so I wonder what the AI was doing with them. The AI was probably doing the same thing we do when we accept one of those convoy or coastal defense missions, that is steaming around desperately trying to find enemy ships, any enemy ships (only to get reports that they are sinking a convoy that is 2 hours of steaming away). You see the same thing happen with friendly support forces. Sometimes they find the action, more often they're off over the horizon doing whatever. BTW, I have no problem with the enemy forces being far different in strength from my own or from the predicted force size. It makes the game far more interesting when you see that massive line of battleships appearing out of the haze when you were expecting an easy win. Admirals were constantly surprised by enemy force composition even in WWII when intelligence had announced that an enemy force was approaching and aircraft had spotted the force and reported on their composition (with amazing inaccuracy). In the time frame the game covers, knowledge of what enemy forces were at sea was even more limited. One thing I'd point out about accepting or declining battles is that the number of battles offered does vary. I've seen many instances where only one battle is offered so if you don't accept that battle you get none for that month. Typically you'll get several offers though. All of the above, and particularly the uneven enemy forces. I really like that (just like naval commanders at the time) you never really knew what you were going to get. Think of the main German line at Jutland when they saw the horizon light up, or Savo Island, or any number of naval battles. A lot of the fun in the tactical battles is dealing with a changing situation.
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Post by Bullethead on Sept 18, 2016 19:38:54 GMT -6
Hello everyone. My personal playing style is I almost never decline battles because I don't like to concede victory points. Which of course means I always fight the first battle scenario that comes up. I tend to end up fighting a lot of convoy defenses and coastline defenses. I would appreciate feedback from anyone who plays differenty and regularly declines battles to try to get a preferred scenario. Does it actually work? Do you see more of the scenarios that you prefer to fight whatever those are. Does the victory point penalty severely impact your overall war outcomes. This isn't a complaint about the way the game works, I'm just curious to hear people's thoughts because I'm considering trying it myself. I never decline battles no matter what the odds. Usually, if the odds are heavily against you, the enemy has the objective of having to sink some of your ships. If you successfully run away, you get those points instead of the enemy. Thus, not only do you not cede VPs for declining the battle, but you gain some for foiling the enemy plan. Of course, you have to have reasonably fast ships to succeed in running away.... Another thing about lopsided battle odds is that numerically superior enemies often have isolated units scattered about. Your smaller but usually more concentrated force can achieve local superiority over these isolated enemy ships and might be able to sink some and then escape condign retribution from the enemy main body. This allows you to turn such scenarios into major victories, again assuming you're fast enough to run away afterwards.
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