bubby
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by bubby on Oct 25, 2016 13:51:10 GMT -6
I want to love this game, i really do.
But
When i have to wander around aimlessly for 45 minutes after a battle to end it, I simply cannot.
When only 1 of every 40 or so engagements even involves a Capital ship or Cruiser, i simply cannot.
When torpedoes seem irrelevant and crews seem to refuse to fire them in the majority of engagements, i simply cannot.
Im tired of wasting my goddamn time fighting 1v1 DD battles and aimlessly wandering about the high seas waiting for an "end of battle" message.
This game is like H.M.S Hood. Seems impressive, feels great at first, but as soon as its time for the real deal, it lasts about 15 minutes before suffering a double magazine detonation and i lose all interest.
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Post by ccip on Oct 25, 2016 14:12:30 GMT -6
Wow, someone is angry Why are you wandering 45 minutes after a battle? Are you not able to set time to ultra fast? At that speed, I don't think any battle (even the maximum 1000 minute ones) lasts more than a minute. I agree that it may be a little annoying, but it does prevent players from "bailing out" of dangerous situations scot-free, and in absence of a faster speed, I'd say that's a fair compromise. If 1 in 40 involves a cruiser... what DO your battles involve? I agree that cruiser encounters can be a bit annoying; the game has already taken a step to auto-resolving them (you can now auto-resolve raider encounters). But even those are usually quick, and even those involve cruisers. Fleet battles are intentionally rare, but they do happen and I've not had a campaign where I wasn't getting a variety of battle types throughout. For torpedoes: what year? What situation? Torpedoes ARE useless at the start of the game timeline, very much intentionally - but that changes, and HOW! See this discussion here about how torpedoes develop in the game and why you shouldn't trust your first impression: nws-online.proboards.com/thread/900/ai-clutch-torpedoesAnd 1v1 DD battles - okay, you got me there. Where? I have literally never had a single 1v1 DD battle in the game, and I've played dozens of campaigns since the game was released. Something sounds off! What are your campaign settings? Otherwise, if 15 minutes is how long you're willing to give this game to make a judgment or get frustrated, I would suggest that perhaps this is not a game for you.
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Post by axe99 on Oct 25, 2016 15:10:12 GMT -6
Hi Bubly and welcome to the forums. There is very much a great game in Rule the Waves, but it's not a "modern" game, in that it takes a bit of learning and experience to appreciate it. For example, you can skip or auto-resolve many of the smaller battles (there is a VP penalty, but it's tiny - the only issue is a potential prestige penalty if you skip too many). As CCIP says, once the battle's sorted, set the speed to ultra fast and head back to port (once all your ships are in port and the enemy has been sunk, it'll automatically end, and ultra-fast rips through the 1000 minutes in no time in any event). There can be frustrating moments when friendly forces outside your control engage the enemy outside your vision, when you can be not allowed to set the speed quicker than 'fast', and have to wait for that to resolve, but they're pretty rare. If you have any other questions, just ask - we'll be happy to help. I've played hundreds of games over the last two and a bit decades, and Rule the Waves is one of the best I've played. It may or may not be for you (we've all got different tastes and preferences) but it is a great game, and I'm sure most on the forum would be happy to help you get past any learning curve issues .
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Post by HolyDragoon on Oct 25, 2016 15:42:03 GMT -6
There can be frustrating moments when friendly forces outside your control engage the enemy outside your vision, when you can be not allowed to set the speed quicker than 'fast', and have to wait for that to resolve, but they're pretty rare. But when they happen, it is on a 1000 minute battle (right now, 1570 and still going), and your enemy seems to be unable to hit the broad side of a minesweeper. It doesn't help that I seem to be on a bad luck day as Sweden, weird **** keeps happening (DesDiv misreading flags twice within 10 game minutes. Yup, looks like we have the Screwup Division). I'm starting to think about proposing an auto resolve option once all your controllable fleets are in dock for RtW2. Seriously, this is very silly, and I have to put up with these guy roaming around, tripping sighing reports and shooting minesweepers.
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Post by atlanticghost on Oct 25, 2016 16:09:59 GMT -6
If you're genuinely getting nothing but very small-scale actions, I have to wonder if you've stumbled into a war with someone on the other side of the planet from you, early in the game. Austria-Hungary vs. Japan, for example. In that case, with no bases or possessions near each other, you're not going to have much opportunity for fleet actions. Pick a fight with someone next door, like Italy vs. France, and you'll have multi-ship battles nearly every turn.
For early torpedoes, you have to get close for them to even be fired, much less hit anything. Also, if you have a destroyer division with you and want to see them do their thing, order a flotilla attack. They'll close the range and fire most of their torps at once. Even if they don't hit anything, watching the enemy desperately scramble out of the way is worth it.
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Post by archelaos on Oct 25, 2016 16:11:06 GMT -6
Are you playing small/very small fleet by chance? This would mean no one except maybe UK and US has ships to fight. And double magazine detonation sounds very British to me. Are you playing as the Empire? I have to agree they explode left and right, this actually lead me to fear even buying my ships in British dockyards... But other nations explode much less and in reasonable moments - like when enemy penetrates your belt right into magazine. In a start screen there is a switch that allows a reduced chance for flash fires. If you pay as UK/US your battle line may be simply to strong for enemy to consider fleet battle, so they will refuse all. Check Almanach and put some of the ships in Reserve(or move to different sea zone) - AI needs to have a chance to win (even if slight) to consider fighting.
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Post by tortugapower on Oct 26, 2016 1:06:38 GMT -6
bubby I feel for you, man. This game does have those moments of tedium. I have to admit that the huge disengagements, when your ships under AI control randomly sail towards an enemy port, sometimes getting killed well after the fighting is done because of this, is *frustrating*. But, the good news is you can learn to avoid a lot of the tedium. You'll learn to decline a lot of smaller battles, as the VP loss for doing so is negligible. Once you develop a better sense of how to play the game the way you enjoy it most, it becomes even better. And, despite these hickups, even when we first loaded it, it was already pretty darn good
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Post by marcorossolini on Oct 27, 2016 21:38:42 GMT -6
I hate to say this, but I honestly feel like we're not playing the same game. With a bit of care (and careful selection of battles) I get an exciting major fleet battle every 2-3 turns. The rest are large scale cruiser battles or raids. Fun stuff.
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Post by thatzenoguy on Oct 28, 2016 2:00:49 GMT -6
I have to admit, I usually get some fun battles.
I think the issue here, is the RNG occasionally ******* up.
I've had 4 year wars without a single fleet battle, and sometimes I've had a fleet battle every 2 months or so.
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bubby
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by bubby on Nov 1, 2016 19:25:29 GMT -6
Thank you all for your patience, but I have more to add.
There is NO excuse for my units blatantly disobeying my direct orders. Its a game, let me fuggin play it. I'm holding the mouse and keyboard for a reason.
When i have 3 BB's, 4 CA's, 5 CL's and 8 DD's in a region, and I get a Convoy Defense Mission, why does the game consistently hand me a pair of DD's, or just an occasional CL to defend against an enemy BC or CA? What was the point of having all of the other units there in the first place?
When Events are happening on other points of the map, don't slow down my ******* game. I know they're happening, and clearly either IDC, or I'm OMW. Don't make me sit around with my thumb up my ass.
The coastlines are an embarrassment. Like Wow, that's horrid.
I really like this game on so many levels, but it ******* faceplants in so many areas as well. It seems like the game randomly shuffles cards and hands you techs, ships, and results, and neglects to explain to you the reasons and mechanics for everything that's happening. It's not intuitive in any degree. Not exactly the kind of fine tune-able naval simulation software i thought i was getting.
But i've got hopes for RTW 2?
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Post by galagagalaxian on Nov 2, 2016 1:00:00 GMT -6
What do you mean by disobeying orders? Are you talking about the refusal to launch torpedoes you mentioned in your first post? Something else? Are you playing on Admiral Mode? I assume you're on captain's mode which allows more (but still not complete) control over any ship in your force? You're not providing any sort of useful information regarding this complaint.
As for the convoy mission, just because you have ships stationed in an area doesn't mean they'll all participate in a battle. Some of the ships might be patrolling, some of them might be in port refueling and resupplying, poor weather might've forced ships to turn back, etc. There are all sorts of reasons they can't participate. Hell, THE HMS Dreadnought missed Jutland because she'd been temporarily assigned closer to London to appease public uproar over German coastal raids.
And the game is a naval simulation, just maybe not the one I guess you thought it was. The game simulates all the crappy imperfection of warfare of the period. Flag signals are the primary means of communication supported by spotty and unreliable wireless and all sorts of middle-man incompetence can muck with the operation of a fleet. The number of times a naval battle or operation was drastically influenced by someone screwing things up during WW1 far outweighed someone influencing things by doing something right (a good example would be the Battle of Dogger bank, where the entire British battlecruiser force stopped chasing their German rivals to pound on an already crippled and helpless cruiser because Admiral Beatty's signal officer screwed up flag orders). And despite all that the player still has far more information about the enemy and control over his forces than Jellicoe or Scheer had during Jutland (who both, at various points had no idea who was shooting at who, where the enemy was, where their own forces were, etc. Jellicoe didn't even realize 2 of the 3 exploded British battlecruisers were lost until basically after the battle was over).
And yes, things can be a bit unintuitive, unfortunately. A lot of that stuff I just talked about isn't explicitly spelled out in game. The game is a "grog game" and a bit of a niche title originally meant to appeal to people who have an interest and passion for the period and come with a bit of an understanding of what the period was like. That the game has achieved some measure of mainstream success and popularity came as quite a surprise to NWS, I believe. Hopefully this can be improved in the sequel both in game and better manual documentation. However, if you expect perfect absolute control over what your fleet is doing and who fights in what battle then this probably is not the game for you and I don't expect RtW2 will be any different in that regard.
As for the map, the game is made by one man who has a normal day job. I believe Fredrik mentioned in the past the map is adapted from commercially available vector data. It is, IMO, serviceable enough, if not super aesthetically pleasing (AI in confined littoral areas could use work though).
I admit the game speed thing for non-player controlled ships getting involved in fights is an annoyance.
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Post by JagdFlanker on Nov 2, 2016 4:54:53 GMT -6
when i first started playing this game i would have agreed with some/a lot of the frustrating stuff the OP mentioned, but having played 40+ full games of RtW (and having never read the manual until recently) i think everything in the game is done for a good reason and it works perfectly fine as a whole. i don't even have much of an interest in the subject matter, but as a game i keep coming back because i can't stop having fun
i could counter the above arguments, but i'd prefer to just boot RtW up and keep the fun rolling
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Post by oldpop2000 on Nov 2, 2016 8:58:19 GMT -6
I believe that we should all remember that this is a game, a simulation based on the interpretation of historical events. Historians must put himself at a point in the past at which all factors known will indeed permit different outcomes. Game designers have to do the same thing. They are developing virtual history in the form of a simulation in which all known factors are brought together and the outcome is determined by us, the game players. This is what gaming is all about. There you have it, a precise and accurate definition of what RTW is trying to do, besides entertain which in my opinion is important. So let's all enjoy it, and watch our language on this forum. OK guys.
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Post by atlanticghost on Nov 2, 2016 10:24:11 GMT -6
Thank you all for your patience, but I have more to add. There is NO excuse for my units blatantly disobeying my direct orders. Its a game, let me fuggin play it. I'm holding the mouse and keyboard for a reason. I'm curious as to what sort of games or simulations you play other than Rule the Waves, as I suspect they have left you with expectations RtW is not designed to meet. Fleet command in this era was a hard problem, as others have discussed. If anything, it might be too easy to exercise command in RtW. We're rather like Tryon, sailing around with the TA flags flying and our subordinates doing their best to follow our moves. In reality, your orders have to be translated into signal flags, hoisted by your signals crew, then hoisted by other ships to signal readiness to comply, and then pulled down on your ship to order execution. All this on a bridge that's likely open to the weather, with clouds of coal smoke and heavy guns firing and shell splashes and possibly rain and fog. Oh, and nevermind if a hit kills the signals team on one of the ships. Sure, there's early wireless, but it's not any faster and synchronization will be even harder. Then once your orders get through it may not be possible to follow them for some reason. So be happy they're followed at all. Your fleet is not crewed by steampunk Borg.
As has been noted, your ships could be anywhere in that large expanse of sea for many reasons. The game is simulating that you can't be everywhere and sometimes the enemy will get the drop on you, with thoroughly unpleasant results. But at least your DD crews can win some medals as they heroically sacrifice themselves. Have a look at a picture of an Aegis system map display, or any other modern CIC system. They're not exactly pretty. But they show you what you need to know to fight the battle. Congratulations, you have an Aegis display 80 years early!
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Post by Airy W on Nov 2, 2016 11:04:15 GMT -6
While normally you can just set speed to ultra and speed through there are a couple situations that might be worth addressing:
1) Long chases between ships of about the same speed where they are just plinking away at extreme range.
2) Night engagements where enemy scouts/stragglers keep stumbling across my scouts/stragglers
It would be nice for these situations if there were options to turn things over to the AI with one of three options:
1) Auto pursue: the AI chases the fleeing enemy and pauses the game only if an enemy if a new task force is seen. Does not pause the game if a new ship in the same task force is seen. If the fleeing ship becomes slower then the pursuer the game is paused if the distance is low enough. If contact is lost the pursuer automatically goes into patrol mode for an hour. 2) Auto flee: the AI runs away with the same pause conditions 3) Auto withdraw: the AI takes over the entire fleet and starts heading back to a friendly port. If heavily outmatched enemies are seen, the AI will automatically engage. If strong enemies are seen, the game will pause. 4) Auto escort: for convoy missions, the AI automatically patrols around the convoy until contact is re-established.
I wouldn't call these super pressing concerns but they would be nice!
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