Lessons from my first runthrough.

[snwh]

So by now, I think a portion of people have completed their first, or even started on their second game.

Personally I made it to 1928, before I couldn't stop the itch to try and optimize my early game. But man did I have a blast. Did some things really poorly, but had a blast.

Such is the way or RTW, There hasn't been a single game of it where I haven't learned something lol, usually a whole lot of somethings.


So, before I forget the lessons I worked so hard for, I figured I'd note them down. If anyone else wants to share some stuff they've figured out, I'd love to hear that too.

1. Airbases aren't great in southeast asia, at least not before 1930. I actually had airbases in north and south asia, the south pacific and in the indian ocean, But as far as I can tell, they never helped me out once. I dunno, flying boats probably help a little with mines and subs, but they aren't a huge deal early anyway. I don't think they help you spot more raiders either. So I think I'm going to hold off on them until the mid '30s to the 40's in my next playthrough. That'll prolly save me around 1.5-2k in budget.

2.Which takes me to another thing. If you saw my other thread, you know I was in some massive budget issues last game lol. In RTW 1, I almost never had this problem. By 1925, I usually had the fourth or fifth highest budget in the world as japan, which was more than enough to deal with two sea zones.

This game I guess I just let myself be greedy. I beat up Germany pretty early, and ended up taking all their possessions. Which I think was a mistake. Iirc, in rtw1, if you didn't take the full value in possessions at a peace treaty, then you got compensated with reparations instead, which helped to grow your economy. And a better economy would have helped me a lot more than additional basing. Though to be fair, I did need a base in the indian ocean, so I could plot to take burma. I just went overboard. Its sorta interesting that out in asia and the pacific, you can't really navaly invade others for a long time. In most circumstances anyways.

3. I need to be more careful, but also more ruthless, about how I build my ships, and how long I keep them around. I kinda did a poor job of futureproofing my ships this round. And that combined with the low budget, kind of put me in a death spiral. I couldn't build new ships because of low budget, so I had to keep old ships, but because I had so many old ships I had a low budget. If that makes sense.

I'm not entirely sure how to break out of this spiral. But it probably has to do with keeping an eye on the future, and replacing old ships, rather than mothballing or worse. I might have also let my support fleet get a tad bloated, Idk.

[skyblazer]

Im finding very similar things in my 1900 AH game that is currently at 1920. Im trying to build new ships but struggling massively with budget. Mothballing didn't really help because to get out of debt i would be told ive got to much moth balled and can't do that. This was with all construction paused. In the end i found myself scrapping the oldest ships and refitting semi acceptable ships.

The new design system also meant my ship classes were a lot bigger then what they were back in rtw1 because of no budget for new designs lol.

[snwh]

Yeah, its a rough life, playing with a low budget nation. Especially on historical budget. I haven't played AH before, is it fun?

[Spaghet Shipwright]

As Italy I went overboard with airpower, both airships and airplanes, wanted to make the whole "Aircraft Carrier Italy" concept reality. Expanded nicely, but ran into budget issues during the 30s where my air operations were more expensive than ship maintenance and research combined.

So next time will probably ease up on the airships, and focus on fewer, larger airbases in key areas.

[snwh]

Well, now that I think about it, it probably doesn't cost much to maintain an airbase, as long as you don't keep any planes on it. So building them probably isn't wrong, but it might be a good idea only keeping a few squadrons that you move to where they're needed

[ramjb]

May 19, 2019 19:28:21 GMT -6 Spaghet Shipwright said:

So next time will probably ease up on the airships, and focus on fewer, larger airbases in key areas.

It's not so much the airbases as the planes themselves. It's easy to dismiss their maintenance cost at first, but when a lot of them happen to be around your budget notices it...bigtime. Bases have a maintenaince cost, but is not that expensive on itself.

I found that problem myself too: having so little a positive income even after mothballing stuff that I could barely get a project going. No wonder, I had 7 airbases with 60 planes each (plus the air complements of the CVs) to pay for...and I was playing on "middle fleet size" setting too. My planes were literally eating the cake.

I think the answer (which is hinted in the manual somewhere, I think) is to keep a limited core of squadrons for peacetime, still build the airbases and infastructure to operate them, and when war comes shuttle your existing squadrons to the bases you think will need them, and begin mass building new squadrons (to have them withdrawn once the war is over and the budget reduced).

Seems pretty historical to me too, keeping a standing wartime-like air force wasn't cheap back then...certainly isn't here either.

[pirateradar]

I think it's an easy trap to fall into, to just build airbases as big as possible and let the game auto-populate them with squadrons only to discover that now your aircraft maintenance costs are enormous.

[Sven]

Do not expect to much from airpower Before the 1930s or even 1940s.

I don't know if anyone here knows "War in the Pacific" from Matrix Games. There was a spin off a few years back called War Plan Orange. You could start in 1920 or 1925. You did have airplanes, but you could savely ignore them. Carriers were more scouts than the powerful weapons they became in WW2. So, up to about 1936, when the planes start getting better, Flying Boats included, the battleship still rules.

[snwh]

I dunno, my experience with air power is a bit limited, but torpedo bombers are pretty powerful from the moment you get them. short ranged yeah, but since there's no one else int he skies, and most ships don't have much torp protection, They can do quite a number on a BB or a BC.

[akosjaccik]

A-H, medium game, currently at 1960 (yes, there went my weekend... )

The starting one and a half decade was utterly miserable. I did not utilize training and was fairly cautious with my mononey but even a rough parity with Italy was not possible to achieve which was rough as I found nothing else to really level the playing field with. After some scary engagements I built a coastal fortification line along Dalmatia, thinking it will help to protect it and I get battleship main cal. guns for less maintenance cost. However, they did not cost at all that much less than their use would validate. This, coupled with the fact that I could not afford to scrap-and-rebuild to keep at least some numbers in arms bought me a few more months but ultimately lost Dalmatia (the AI loves to invade the first given time) and at this point I thought I'll be nothing but a punching bag with a handful of obsolete cruisers at best. At this early stage HTA aviation proved to be wasted money, though a few flying boats did help. LTA however dis its wonders and I pretty much closed down the Adriatic with zeppelins- hadn't have to truly utilize aircraft-based recon until much later wich was largely carrier-based in my instance, so never truly got to really dip into floatplanes, especially that by the time I got my hands on the catapults, my carrier force was sufficient to solve these problems by themselves, and operating seaplanes without catapults was just something I was not going to buy into.
Come the twenties, and I was still not much better off. I bulit ships in foreign yards, never modern but at least competitive, but they again and again got singled out. I had no real chance to play with conversions until I got the purpose-built CVL tech, and because they weren't horribly expensive, I built one to experiment with. The hilarious thing is that for the longest time I was stuck at tech level 2-3 for HTA, so if not for the by the time alliance with GB, I couldn't equip her with anything but native-built fighters. Finally licensed british TBs got into the hangar and slooowly, slowly as the time went on, I got my footing back. After a peace treaty I got back Dalmatia (this time didn't bother with fortifications whatsoever, but the airship-coverage was a high priority issue still) and things started to look up - well, somewhat. A decade later maybe, when everyone ran around with DBs, my navy still had no idea about TBs, though we used british designs for years by then. I was trying to set HTA on high priority (not quite because carrier hard-on, but because the tech level difference was apalling), and while RtW said "you need carriers in active service for that my boy", I thoght hell, I have one! In fact, the sister ship of my CVL was also ready, though that one mothballed for financial reasons in peace. Finally I said f* it, austro-hungarian carriers it is.
...and then, the miracle slowly started to materialize. Techs started to register in, my companies started to frantically work on native designs, and with a single CV and (now always active yearlong) CVLs the striking force was born.
They first showed their claws when Russia wandered into the Adriatic with three carriers overall and other capital ships, looking for the easy prey. Noone got back home. The first strikes of the CTF crippled them, the still heavily outnumbered battleships, who however now worked with excellent airship recon and with aerial superiority shattered the remains and finally the air force massacred the fleeing remains.
Damn, I thought. Apparently I found A-Hs equalizer. Ridiculous- but the burning russian wrecks on the coastline drove the message home. And it frightened the international opinion who fret for the status quo.
1940s. I practically gave up on cruisers and utilized expensive, top-of-the line destroyers. Coupled with some fast battleships, never more than two BCs and my carriers they had to stop the allied british-italian alliance and their overwhelming superiority.
...and they did. Blockaded, closed off in the mediterranean with the help of excellent recon and first strikes I witthled them down, sonetimes raiding convoys even. The was was extremely close, but Italy collapsed completely and some months later, GB sued for peace. By this time frequent demonstrations were in order in Wien.
Cone 1950, and after rationalizing my land-based, now long-range air and commanding overall four carriers I was still heavily outproduced and -financed, but it did not matter anymore. Radar technology got high prioriry and what my carriers did not do, my destroyers did with some high-caliber help sonetimes. Pretty much the entirety of the french fleet was lost in one afternoon when they decided to test their luck. All I did what we learned from our horsearcher ancestors- run and shoot backwards, then turn around and finish the job. Still, the two french fleet carriers, notably their CAP and AA caused some unnecessary trouble, so...
...at the end of the 1950s the third of my carriers, this time a 41k ton monstrosity got launched- never thought I'll get here. Currenly I got a colony in southeast Africa and I am the sex in the Mediterranean, though of course I still can't be careless.
By this point I found submarines almost pointless. They cost relatively too much money in time to get almost immediately blown out of the water, mainly by the air force. Hadn't had absolute (though some) luck with BCs either. With CVs at hand, I found zipping around with 30 knots in capital ships less of an issue, so the carrier squadrons' speed with large destroyer escorts is 30 knots, while my main battle force, consisting usually of 3, maybe in rich years 4 battleships are capable of doing 25-26 kts. I recently retrofitted them with a catapult and four floatplanes, but it was rather a 'can' than a 'must'.
Overall, it was an interesting "story arc" with a fair amount of finding way in the darkness

[ramjb]

May 20, 2019 0:43:19 GMT -6 Sven said:

Do not expect to much from airpower Before the 1930s or even 1940s. 

I've had late 1920s wars in two different playthroughs where even small CVLs with a handful of torpedoes were brutal. I think the turnaround times are too quick and that launches and recoveries happen waaaay too fast, and I think most of the problem resides there, but in any case, they are truly dangerous.

[griffin01]

Also playing KUK, however, I never felt the need to invest much into carriers - they mostly served as fighter mules. Instead, my ridiculously expensive battleships were helped along by hordes of medium bombers and some torpedo bombers, which, I find, are incredibly useful. Especially the medium bombers.

[Procopius]

I'm in the middle 1940s as the UK, and my experience has been similar. The voracious demand for FS tonnage wasn't something I expected after RTW1, and a lot of my construction has been small 4,000-ton 6" colonial cruisers to show the flag.

That said, land-based air in western Europe is brutal. I still haven't quite mastered air group construction for carriers (I build 80-plane ships with 10 8-plane squadrons, half fighters, 30% TBs, and 20% DBs) and did manage to wipe out ten German dreadnoughts in a single aeronaval action, but my large land-based air groups in Norway (an early acquisition I don't regret), Britain, and Ireland have devastated the enemy with huge waves of aircraft. Multiple inbound 20-TB strikes from shore bases overwhelmed a three-CV German fleet recently and sank two carriers (one took twenty[!!!!] torpedoes, which probably saved the third ship from annihilation) in a battle where my surface ships never encountered the enemy.

So far AA seems pretty ineffective, even with battleships sporting batteries of DP 5" guns, four AA directors, and around 30 MAA batteries plus a similar amount of LAA...not sure what I should be prioritizing.

[warlock]

I found Italy to be pretty much easy mode. You only have to worry about covering one zone, the Mediterranean so you don't have to have a huge fleet to cover colonies all over the globe, all you have to worry about is local superiority. Even against GB who had a huge advantage in ships, I was successful due to the fact they couldn't keep a huge fleet around very long. Also your neighbor, A-H is weak as hell so it is very easy to pick on them and beat them up badly. France can be a bit of an issue but they have a huge global presence so just like GB they appear more powerful than they  end up being. Also with Italy I would recommend rushing to Airpower as soon as you can and design all your planes for range, then build tons of Airbases. You have such a narrow area in the Mediterranean that you can project airpower coverage over a vast area around Italy. I think by 1930, my land based aircraft were sinking as many ships as my active feet was in any given battle. I mean even without having an CVs on my side, I would get a constant drumroll of "Unsighted" hit by Torpedo or Bomb not to mention the fact I knew the location of every part of the enemy fleet within a very short time as air recon would spot everything. Finally, MTBs in such an enclosed area are very well worth it.

All in all I am in 1953 with my Italy playthrough. I have completely destroyed 90% of both the A-H and France's entire Navy to the point they are incapable of waging war (100% sinkage of all BB/BCs and 90% of CA/CLs and now even their CVs and CVLs) and currently smacking around England. Just had my first big battle with them were I was at an overwhelming disadvantage and ripped them a new one. Sunk 1 BB, 3 BC, 2 CA, 1 CVL and 2 massive 45,000 ton Fleet CVs for the loss of 1 CL and 2 DDs on my side. They stared with 2 BB, 5 BC, 4 CA, 2 CVL, 4 CVs. Land based airpower took out 1 BC, 1 CA, 1 CVL and 1 Fleet CV without any assistance from me. My main fleet accounted for the remaining 1 BB, 2 BC, 1 CA and 1 Fleet CV with a scattering of lighter union. Also to try to put the power of land based airpower in Italy into perspective, my Fleet for this battle was only 2 BB, 3 CA and 4 24,000-25,000 ton CVs with the usually CL, DD mix up. There is nearly a zero chance I could have won that without all the land based air that I had. I would bet I had at least 200 land based, TBs, DBs and MBs attacking any enemy ship in sight and probably at least 100 land based fighters than annihilated their air wings. I think I had maybe a total of 6, mostly depleted squadrons of enemies actually make it through to my ships which between them only scored 1 bomb hit. It was a slaughter.

[princeofsavoy]

Cool to see other people talking about AH-playthroughs, I guess I'll add my Story as well.

Basically, my plan for the starting game was to build cheap coastal defence Battleships to try to maintain a semblance of parity in guns/armour with Italy. In my first war with Italy in around 1902, I easily won because I had GB as an ally, and the Italians were just blockaded to death. I got Rhodos, Lybia and Sardinia, and from there I formulated my Strategy for the rest of the Game: Since I didn't have the money to build Aircraft Carriers, I'd make the islands and coasts of the Mediterranean my cheap, unsinkable aircraft carriers.

Sadly, the British didn't renew the Alliance just as I blundered into a War with France in 1912 or so. It was a disaster. First, I lost my three old predreadnought Battleships, then my only hope for winning the War, a new Superdreadnought exploded on its maiden voyage, all the while I was under constant blockade. They also lost a Dreadnought and many smaller ships, but not nearly enough to free me from the blockade.

I was begging the government to pursue peace, but they would have none of it. I was ready to lose most of my newly won possessions and be driven into insolvency, when the Government, without any input from me, pulled out of their hat a white peace somehow. 

Another War with Italy in 1925 ended with some small reparations. Despite il Duce's commitment to fight to the end, the War was over before two years had passed.

Then something happened I wasn't aware could happen. My rivals Italy and France allied together against me. But I was making diplomatic moves of my own. The U.S. was sought as an a new Ally, while Germany initiated first a research agreement and then a full alliance.

The situation came to a head in 1937, in the Great War. While France concentrated in the Mediterranean in order to try to maintain a blockade over me, Germany blockaded them in the North Sea, and my raiders broke through their lines to harass their shipping quite effectively. A few years into this, the French finally could not carry on any longer, and after a Revolution the new Government sought peace. Apart from more Mediterranean possessions, AH also acquired its first and so far only light Aircraft Carrier. It will be mainly used in a scouting/air cover role against the increasing threat of enemy Carriers.

Now it is 1943, a new War with France has started, but with Italy no longer supporting them, they should be easy work for my still enduring alliance. I still have the sister ships of the Superdreadnought that was blown up way back in the beginning of the Game, though they are pretty much just gathering Barnacles at Port. Our just completed Battlecruisers seem to have more luck, as they already destroyed a french Battlecruiser.

However, I still have the second-lowest Budget, much of my Navy is severely outdated and I barely have enough to keep my current Ships and Aircraft Operational.