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Post by tmp on May 26, 2019 17:29:46 GMT -6
Game version: 1.01, also 1.00
Issue: Ship designer accepts double gun mounts on CLs when the relevant tech wasn't yet researched.
Steps to reproduce: start a new 1900 game, nation and settings don't appear to matter. Create a new CL design, put double guns in A and/or Y mounts. Design will pass the validity check with merely a warning about slight ROF reduction.
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Post by triggerhappypilot on May 26, 2019 20:26:28 GMT -6
I don't believe this is a bug. Protected cruisers can mount up to 8 inch guns in the A and Y positions so long as they use the protected cruiser armor scheme. I think it's to model ships like USS Olympia.
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Post by pirateradar on May 26, 2019 21:00:37 GMT -6
CLs have always been able to have double guns in A and Y until you research the new armor scheme.
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Post by tmp on May 27, 2019 6:35:34 GMT -6
I don't believe this is a bug. Protected cruisers can mount up to 8 inch guns in the A and Y positions so long as they use the protected cruiser armor scheme. I think it's to model ships like USS Olympia. On one hand it makes sense, on the other it also allows mounting double 5-6in guns which were either a very rare configuration or not used at all on the actual ships of that period. Makes it a bit too easy to outgun the AI which follows the historical setups in this regard. |
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Post by dorn on May 27, 2019 6:47:36 GMT -6
I don't believe this is a bug. Protected cruisers can mount up to 8 inch guns in the A and Y positions so long as they use the protected cruiser armor scheme. I think it's to model ships like USS Olympia. On one hand it makes sense, on the other it also allows mounting double 5-6in guns which were either a very rare configuration or not used at all on the actual ships of that period. Makes it a bit too easy to outgun the AI which follows the historical setups in this regard. Double mounts have 20 % penalty for gun caliber 8" and less at 1900 start. It is quite and disadvantage. On top of that double turret up to 2" armour weights more than 2 single shielded mounts forward/aft. Double turrets gets only slight weight advantage over 2" armour against single mounts but with 20 % penalty it is still not overal better than single mounts. |
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Post by tmp on May 27, 2019 10:34:34 GMT -6
Double mounts have 20 % penalty for gun caliber 8" and less at 1900 start. It is quite and disadvantage. On top of that double turret up to 2" armour weights more than 2 single shielded mounts forward/aft. Double turrets gets only slight weight advantage over 2" armour against single mounts but with 20 % penalty it is still not overal better than single mounts. Single mounts weight less because they're considered to be gun shields not actual turrets, and unlike the latter are vulnerable to splinters. The rof penalty is more than offset by the arc coverage -- double turret can deliver both its shots in full 270 deg arc, while 2 single mounts can do it only in central 1/3rd. |
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Post by dorn on May 27, 2019 11:01:07 GMT -6
Double mounts have 20 % penalty for gun caliber 8" and less at 1900 start. It is quite and disadvantage. On top of that double turret up to 2" armour weights more than 2 single shielded mounts forward/aft. Double turrets gets only slight weight advantage over 2" armour against single mounts but with 20 % penalty it is still not overal better than single mounts. Single mounts weight less because they're considered to be gun shields not actual turrets, and unlike the latter are vulnerable to splinters. The rof penalty is more than offset by the arc coverage -- double turret can deliver both its shots in full 270 deg arc, while 2 single mounts can do it only in central 1/3rd. But this is important, the difference is quite a large and shield is usually enough. If shield is penetrated, turret would be too.
Overall I think single shielded guns are early better.
I will compare 6" guns with 2" armour, and 1" top, with 140 ammo including ammo, crew etc.
Variant A - 6" double turret - 168 tons Variant B - 2x6" single shielded guns - 131 tons
Compare area of fire: forward -45 to +45: 1.6 vs. 2 - 25 % increase by single mounts
sides +45 to 135: 1.6 vs. 1 - with usually 4 wing single mounts on each side: 7.2 vs. 6 - 20 % increase by double turret
But forward usually more issue than broadside. On top of that you are saving 37 tons, 74 tons total for aft and forward.
I would choose single turret but it is up to each player what he thinks is more important.
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