The curious case of a Float Plane Tender and why they SUCK?

[dizzy]

First to develop the technology of float planes and tenders with their corresponding aircraft catapult launchers (not the CV kind), I was giddy with ambition for this new war tool to scout enemy fleets and sink them with my faster BC's. So I opened up Design Ship and began starring at the screen. What to do?

I decided to design a Float-plane Tender that would use float planes as they gained in range and ability, a ten year plan. How many float planes do I need for this enemy fleet scouting doctrine? I also needed to know the recon range and how wide an angle I needed to search.

So I decided upon 200 miles and One Hundred-Eighty degrees of coverage. I needed 26 miles between planes as normal visual range is about 13 miles and I don't know how high float-planes fly. So how many planes is that? Circumference= pi times diameter divided by 2 divided by 26 in this case. So that was 3.14x400/2/26 = 24 planes. What about reliability? Let's assume 75% of the float-plane fleet will be in working order, optimistically, I'd need 32 planes, a reasonable float-plane number. I know I'm not taking into account the moving AV tender, or the fact only two float-planes can launch every few minutes from catapults, but this was close to what I wanted.

So that's what I did. I built a kick ass 18,000 ton AV tender with 32 planes and two catapults, fast enough to keep up with the BC's. I was ready to hunt down enemy fleets and crush them!

But practically, how did this awesome AV tender work? Build one so you too can be equally disappointed!

When setting my search parameters for 200 miles and 180` of coverage, my float planes didnt launch. Hrmmm. They have a catapults! They should launch. So I click 'Airstrike' and see my float-plane(s) in one line item; All thirty-Two of them. I select 'Recon' for it's mission and 'ready' it. A second line item is added for the float-plane being readied and the 1st line item of 32 planes drops to 31. WTH? I have to click 32 times on the float-plane line item (If using all of them), click another 32 times on 'Ready Strike' and then click 32 more times for each individual float-plane and then hit Launch Strike? No, it's even worse than that because you have to select a 'Target' location for the Recon mission. So that's another 32 clicks in between 32 more clicks to open the Airstrike and select another plane before doing the same for each and every one for all 32 locations.

It's hell, and one I wouldn't wish on my enemy. So I ask why, then, cannot there be a simpler way to handle this like the automated recon that carriers use?


***************EDIT*****************
It has been brought to my attention that I got floatplanes pegged wrong. Apparently they will fly out to do an initial search like carrier scouting. So I will test and see if they work...

[dizzy]

The only solution I can think of is to have a checkmark box on that line item of float-planes or something where we can opt to have them auto run recon like carriers do and they'd just disappear from the line item list as they would populate for the auto recon parameters. So if ten planes were needed to populate the auto recon mission parameters, you'd see ten less float-planes in the line item list, similar to how torpedo planes populate their auto recon missions.

[southkraut]

Air ops micromanagement is pretty out of hand, IMO.

[tywudtke]

Did you set up the search on turn 0? It only works on turn 0 or if set before aircraft can launch, like in a storm or at night. If you adjust it after, it doesnt do anything till the next dawn/end of storm. And floatplane search priority would help

[dizzy]

If you can get floatplanes to search on turn 0 and do a search pattern like carrier planes with 2 clicks, then you have me beat by several hundred clicks, sir, and I'll salute you. But I don't think floatplanes work that way.

[jwsmith26]

They do work that way, dizzy, at least in my games.

It is important that you select the "Floatplane search priority" option on the "Doctrine" screen prior to battle. If you need to adjust the search pattern, you'll want to follow tywudtke suggestions to do so on turn 0 or prior to the search being launched. However this type of automated search only works once per day, the first search of the day.

BTW, 32 floatplanes is really more than you'll need for this process. 9 planes will cover a 180 degree segment, which is far broader than is usually required. 

Your comments on the number of clicks required to set up a manual search are accurate but I don't see why you would do this for 32 planes. Most of my manual searches involve about 3 planes because I usually have a decent idea of where the enemy lurks. 

[dizzy]

Ok I'll try it. This sounds like I can use AV tenders now. It was just too much clicking! Happy happy joy joy!!!

[dizzy]

May 27, 2019 9:13:58 GMT -6 jwsmith26 said:

It is important that you select the "Floatplane search priority" option on the "Doctrine" screen prior to battle. If you need to adjust the search pattern, you'll want to follow tywudtke suggestions to do so on turn 0 or prior to the search being launched. However this type of automated search only works once per day, the first search of the day. 

So the floatplanes only work once per day? And it has to be the first search? So I cant wait till later? Hrmmm. That's much less useful. I'd prefer the option to use them to search whenever I so choose. Can that be donbe? Sounds like I only need a few to search for the enemy carriers that get away later in a battle.

[jwsmith26]

Unfortunately, the one time per day automated search applies, not only to floatplanes, but to all aircraft in the game. Currently that is the limitation in RTW2.

The automated search occurs one time. If the game starts during the day in good weather the search will be initiated on turn 1. After the search process is initiated you will no longer be able adjust search parameters (or at least the game won't recognize adjustments), so you need to set up any automated pattern search on turn 0. If the battle starts at night, or in weather that prevents flight, the automated search will occur as soon as flight is allowed, which can be difficult to predict, so even in these circumstances it is probably still a good idea to set the search parameters on turn 0. 

Any later searches will need to be set up manually using the air strike system.

It's not perfect but it is the way the game operates.

[mycophobia]

May 27, 2019 9:59:30 GMT -6 jwsmith26 said:

Unfortunately, the one time per day automated search applies, not only to floatplanes, but to all aircraft in the game. Currently that is the limitation in RTW2.

The automated search occurs one time. If the game starts during the day in good weather the search will be initiated on turn 1. After the search process is initiated you will no longer be able adjust search parameters (or at least the game won't recognize adjustments), so you need to set up any automated pattern search on turn 0. If the battle starts at night, or in weather that prevents flight, the automated search will occur as soon as flight is allowed, which can be difficult to predict, so even in these circumstances it is probably still a good idea to set the search parameters on turn 0. 

Any later searches will need to be set up manually using the air strike system.

It's not perfect but it is the way the game operates.

I guess it maybe better to say it in Suggestions but I'll just bring it up here as well that it may be worth looking into the ability to launch a search pattern at any time using the current automated search wheel function(Maybe add a "Search now" button). I am not sure how much coding work will go into this, but it will make carrying out searches are lot easier and save a lot of micro.

the Airstrike function works well enough for strikes, but its really a lot of unnecessary hassle when you wanted to do searches.

[dorn]

May 27, 2019 9:59:30 GMT -6 jwsmith26 said:

Unfortunately, the one time per day automated search applies, not only to floatplanes, but to all aircraft in the game. Currently that is the limitation in RTW2.

The automated search occurs one time. If the game starts during the day in good weather the search will be initiated on turn 1. After the search process is initiated you will no longer be able adjust search parameters (or at least the game won't recognize adjustments), so you need to set up any automated pattern search on turn 0. If the battle starts at night, or in weather that prevents flight, the automated search will occur as soon as flight is allowed, which can be difficult to predict, so even in these circumstances it is probably still a good idea to set the search parameters on turn 0. 

Any later searches will need to be set up manually using the air strike system.

It's not perfect but it is the way the game operates.

How do you do it manually?
Set up search pattern first, than launch needed number of planes from different cruisers or search pattern is needed to be set up for each cruiser?

[jwsmith26]

dorn , you use the same mechanism you use to launch air strikes. Instead of assigning a naval strike or a ground strike you assign a recon mission. The game will automatically set the number of planes assigned to 1 but you can change that. After you click "Set up strike" or "Launch strike" the 1 plane will be peeled out of the squadron and a new squadron of one will be created that will fly the mission, leaving the original squadron available for other assignments. You will need to set a target for the recon "strike". Once launched the recon plane will fly to the target location and then turn around and fly back to base as it is searching. If you want to set a pattern you will need to assign each plane individually. Usually you'll use a fairly small number of planes for this type of search because you usually know the approximate location of the enemy force, but there's nothing to stop you from creating a large 180 degree pattern.

[dorn]

jwsmith26
Thanks for explanation.

It give me idea that fighters could be best especially from 30s as range is not needed.

[jwsmith26]

dorn , fighters work, (though not from AVs, obviously.  ). Early fighters have pretty short ranges, so they're not a great choice early on, but they do seem like a good choice if you think your search is going to find carriers. The enemy carrier's CAP will often shoot down any search plane they spot, often prior to the recon plane providing a sighting report. Fighters should be less susceptible to this. That also leaves  more of your bombers for the real work.

[Fredrik W]

There is a bug with automated search patterns from ships with floatplanes. It will be fixed in 1.02.