Playing as Japan = Nobody will fight me!

[jov]

So in my first playthrough as Japan in RTW2 (have many games of RTW1 under my belt) I have reached the late 40s and I am just struggling to find anyone who will come out and fight.

I have fought Germany and France allied together, Britain twice and now the USA, and they have all refused to move their fleets out of home waters.

Against the USA currently, they have moved their massive fleet to Northern Europe and have kept it there for the duration.

Am wondering if this is typical of other players games? I understand that the game is focused on Europe, but thought I could have had one really good scrap by now! Alternatively what is a good way to force the AI to come out and fight? I can't head out after them as the regions I would need to move through cannot support my fleet 



Just to double check I peaced out and then fought USA again a few years later. Same thing happened 

[JagdFlanker]

i can confirm it is harder to get in wars playing as Japan (and USA i think, although i havn't played them in years)

best bet to get into some action is put intel on 'high' for the countries you would like to fight as that will increase the diplomatic incidents

conversely putting intel on 'none' will greatly reduce the chance of getting into a war with that specific country

[jov]

Sorry, to clarify, I can get into wars just fine. Just that nobody will then fight me; they keep their fleets at home. The only major engagement I have had is with the Russians, and I suspect that is because Vladivostok is one of their home provinces. England, France, Germany and the USA have quite happily sat back and done nothing as I have stripped them of their Asian territories.

[namuras]

Interesting... in my current japan game i only get a trickle of raiders and the occasional B, BB or BC... but never a larger force unless it's russian.

England, France and Germany have currently opted to not send much of anything... made for some nice easy invasions.

[mycophobia]

Same case for me as well, in multiple rtw 1 Japanese and my one rtw 2 Japanese playthrough, only Russia considers sending its entire fleet over once war started. Germany/France usually send nothing or lone BCs one after another. UK is a bit varied, in rtw 1 I have seen occasional larger tasks forces, but in rtw2 its again lone BC/Escorts. I feel this maybe due to the AI trying to match its force to base capacity?

In anycase I feel this should be show what changed if at all possible. Otherwise the Japanese can barely expect any large scale fleet action once Russia is out of the picture. I get that its difficult for massive fleets to operate so far from homelands, but as time goes on the issue should become less and less and encourage ai to bring its main fleet to battle you in the late 30s-mid 40s. It would make sense from a gameplay perspective. I know that currently technology progress does raise fleet capacity in places without base, but I feel the bonus is too small, and as a result while the AI may send token BC once in awhile, large scale fleet action almost never happen.

I haven't tried the 20s scenario so cant speak to that, but as is, I feel SEA and the pacific should see a lot more action if its at least contested.


The absolute worst case was in my rtw2 Japanese game im at war with UK,France and Italy all at once, and they refuse to send anything besides 1 fast BB to SEA in 3 years. When I pushed into indian ocean, rather than coming to meet me, they instead pulled most fleet away and only left some CA and DDs there. This was in the early 50s and I was hoping it to be the end game war, but instead there was barely a battle worth remembering

[ramjb]

I'm currently in the finishing rounds of a Japan playthrough (1952).

Fought the germans, the french and the russians.

They all brought their toys to fight me, certainly I've had not a lack of a fight for the whole game. A question would be - in those wars were you allied with any big fish?. I was allied with the UK up to the mid-30s and I noticed that in my wars until then I had little to fight. But as soon as the alliance was over (those snotty brits got pissy about me stealing some tech or another ), each time I got into a war I didn't have a lack of things to shoot XD

[jwsmith26]

What I have found that seems to work best to induce the Europeans to come play in the Pacific or Indian Oceans is invasions. If you are invading their territory you are much more likely to get a response in the form of a large fleet, though seldom their entire fleet. I slowly invaded every French possession in SE Asia and the French were not happy about it. They seemed willing to repeatedly contest the issue with their fleet. When I got a foothold in the Indian Ocean I fought well over a dozen major battles against the British, who were royally pissed off about the little incursion. Movements into the South Pacific also generated battles, though fewer.

I think the conditions must be such that the basing allows the Europeans to operate their fleet without penalty. For instance, once I reduced the French enclaves in SE Asia to the point that they could not supply a large fleet, they pretty much just gave up the effort and I mopped up the rest of their colonies (it took several years - invasions are not fast affairs). When I moved into the Indian Ocean the British were able to maintain a large fleet and apparently felt comfortable basing one there, which allowed major battles to occur. (The Suez canal proved a major nuisance - allowing the British fleet to jump into the Indian Ocean from the Med while I could not effectively respond. The end of the war solved that by allowing me to snag Egypt, turning the tables on that particular strategic advantage.)

[mycophobia]

May 27, 2019 10:37:06 GMT -6 jwsmith26 said:

What I have found that seems to work best to induce the Europeans to come play in the Pacific or Indian Oceans is invasions. If you are invading their territory you are much more likely to get a response in the form of a large fleet, though seldom their entire fleet. I slowly invaded every French possession in SE Asia and the French were not happy about it. They seemed willing to repeatedly contest the issue with their fleet. When I got a foothold in the Indian Ocean I fought well over a dozen major battles against the British, who were royally pissed off about the little incursion. Movements into the South Pacific also generated battles, though fewer.

I think the conditions must be such that the basing allows the Europeans to operate their fleet without penalty. For instance, once I reduced the French enclaves in SE Asia to the point that they could not supply a large fleet, they pretty much just gave up the effort and I mopped up the rest of their colonies (it took several years - invasions are not fast affairs). When I moved into the Indian Ocean the British were able to maintain a large fleet and apparently felt comfortable basing one there, which allowed major battles to occur. (The Suez canal proved a major nuisance - allowing the British fleet to jump into the Indian Ocean from the Med while I could not effectively respond. The end of the war solved that by allowing me to snag Egypt, turning the tables on that particular strategic advantage.)

This did not seem to happen as I was invaded French-indo china over the course of two wars, and later when I am at war with UK+France+Italy I invaded whats left of French indo china and then Burma. I got very little French response in the first two wars, and when I invaded Burma the UK did absolutely nothing (They still have all their indian ocean and SEA holdings), they also have a fairly significant fleet advantage over me, yet sends half their ship to the Carribean/North America East while keeping the other half at home. (Could this be a pathing issue where they try to use the Panamas but cannot since US isn't part of the war?)

Worth noting the only time where western nations really responded was in a rtw 1 campaign as Qing China, where UK had no issue sending over 8 BBS to SEA in a war, which is about 70% of their navy at the time, something that never happened in any of my Japan playthroughs.(and I have done quite a few)

Also worth noting that US is much more willing to go to Northern Europe even when it has no base there(but will not stay for long) compared to western nation going to Asia. In my French rtw2 playthrough, the US have no problem sorting to Europe and blockade me a few turns before leaving. They also vigouriously defend their holdings in Carib and will not hesitate to invade if I show weakness there. Meanwhile they make no serious effort to defend their SEA holding even when I invade their in force.(Granted that maybe just because US have much better basing in Caribbean, still they are more than willing to sorty to Europe)

[christian]

May 27, 2019 7:47:21 GMT -6 jov said:

Sorry, to clarify, I can get into wars just fine. Just that nobody will then fight me; they keep their fleets at home. The only major engagement I have had is with the Russians, and I suspect that is because Vladivostok is one of their home provinces. England, France, Germany and the USA have quite happily sat back and done nothing as I have stripped them of their Asian territories.

same thing has happend here when i went to war with the us nothing happend and when i went to britain they did send some 7 battleships but once those were made scrap metal nothing more happend and i just took over the intire southeast asia and collapsing them with amc raider spam 


its really god damn annoying since its SUPER hard to get in fleet battles

another problem might also be short range ships which in the first place any country which has colonies should not be building done because nobody would limit half their fleet to home waters only


but yeah the only way i have been able to consistantly get into battles is to send my fleet to where their intire fleet is holed up hiding which first of all is super annoying as i have no supply lines usually as japan and usa is a pain  

[jov]

May 27, 2019 10:37:06 GMT -6 jwsmith26 said:

What I have found that seems to work best to induce the Europeans to come play in the Pacific or Indian Oceans is invasions. If you are invading their territory you are much more likely to get a response in the form of a large fleet, though seldom their entire fleet. I slowly invaded every French possession in SE Asia and the French were not happy about it. They seemed willing to repeatedly contest the issue with their fleet. When I got a foothold in the Indian Ocean I fought well over a dozen major battles against the British, who were royally pissed off about the little incursion. Movements into the South Pacific also generated battles, though fewer.

I think the conditions must be such that the basing allows the Europeans to operate their fleet without penalty. For instance, once I reduced the French enclaves in SE Asia to the point that they could not supply a large fleet, they pretty much just gave up the effort and I mopped up the rest of their colonies (it took several years - invasions are not fast affairs). When I moved into the Indian Ocean the British were able to maintain a large fleet and apparently felt comfortable basing one there, which allowed major battles to occur. (The Suez canal proved a major nuisance - allowing the British fleet to jump into the Indian Ocean from the Med while I could not effectively respond. The end of the war solved that by allowing me to snag Egypt, turning the tables on that particular strategic advantage.)

Cheers. There have been a number of invasions, but this does not seem to have prompted much reaction. It may have been because once the invasions scenarios commenced firing, the issue was decided very quickly, and they didn't have time to move their fleet out? Instead I have seen a lot of messages like this







Am not sure why the AI isn't being triggered to move out and defend these. At most they send a single Battlecruiser, but usually I am just brushing off a couple of cruisers and destroyers.

Conversely I am not sure how feasible it is to take the battle to the enemy? Trying to move my fleet to the American West Coast is difficult because of support limitations. If there is a way to push and force an engagement I would be glad to hear it 

Oh, and regarding Allies, I allied with Italy once, but it did occur to me that that might have been causing the AI to keep fleets in European waters, so I ended the alliance via an event. For the rest of the war, and in all subsequent wars, the same thing occurred. 

[snwh]

I've had the same problem at different points in the game as japan. For example I whipped france pretty hard, ad then they refused to come out of europe and declared total war on me. couldn't beat them until GB joined them, and I scared GB lol

Anyway, some things I've been thinking about to combat this, are either trying to keep an ally around europe, so you have some basing there. or to have a long ranged battlefleet, that can act outside its home waters (relatively) safely. Havent really tested how either of those worked out tho

[mycophobia]

May 27, 2019 22:00:13 GMT -6 snwh said:

I've had the same problem at different points in the game as japan. For example I whipped france pretty hard, ad then they refused to come out of europe and declared total war on me. couldn't beat them until GB joined them, and I scared GB lol

Anyway, some things I've been thinking about to combat this, are either trying to keep an ally around europe, so you have some basing there. or to have a long ranged battlefleet, that can act outside its home waters (relatively) safely. Havent really tested how either of those worked out tho

As japan I tend to try to get UK on my side before starting issues with anyone in Europe Early, however in practice this results in the enemy country never leaving Europe at all since it’s trying to fight an UK blockade and me doing basically nothing in Asia

[snwh]

Well, if you have GB as an ally, you have access to, i believe, half their total basing. Should be more than enough to move your fleet in there

[mycophobia]

May 27, 2019 22:51:06 GMT -6 snwh said:

Well, if you have GB as an ally, you have access to, i believe, half their total basing. Should be more than enough to move your fleet in there

Usually at that stage of the game even if I went to Europe I wouldn't be able to fight most people at their home RTW 2 is nice in allowing AI allies but I never seen more than 1 squadron of capitals+some escorts, would wish there are opportunity to be the little guy between two big guy's war to be honest as well.

[vonfriedman]

I still think that an option that would allow us to play a kind of WW2 simulation, giving the player control over one of the two coalitions (Axis vs Allies), would be interesting.