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Post by dizzy on May 29, 2019 0:59:23 GMT -6
The manual states any ship with a capability in more than one of these fields, Mine Warfare or Anti Sub Warfare, the effectiveness of each will be reduced.
On the Ship Design window, I see two boxes, one for each, Mine Laying and Mine Sweeping, but the ratings for two of my destroyers, both of which have Mine Sweeping, but only one has Mines are different. So are there three categories here? Mine Laying, Mine Sweeping and ASW?
Or is something else going on?
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Post by rodentnavy on May 29, 2019 6:20:08 GMT -6
Well so far as I can tell minelaying capacity causes only a minor reduction in ASW rating if any. Minesweeping gear on the other hand has a very dramatic impact.
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Post by dizzy on May 29, 2019 8:07:16 GMT -6
Not what I'm asking. If you have a Minesweeper and give it Mines as well, does this reduce your MS ability because you're doing both? The manual is only clear when you mix MS and ASW.
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Post by rodentnavy on May 29, 2019 8:21:40 GMT -6
Not what I'm asking. If you have a Minesweeper and give it Mines as well, does this reduce your MS ability because you're doing both? The manual is only clear when you mix MS and ASW. Well you cannot add mines to a corvette and a destroyer minesweeper seems a bit of an expensive solution. |
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Post by tortugapower on May 29, 2019 10:21:38 GMT -6
I was wondering the same thing when I read the manual. rodentnavy have you seen this ASW number drop for a ship in-game just by putting either minesweeping or mines on it? If so, I'd be very curious how much! dizzy I haven't looked there yet, but have you checked the Area tab in the main strategic interface and seen if the numbers there are changing at all? (That tab is new to RtW2 and has minesweeping and minelaying columns, if I'm not mistaken) |
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Post by rodentnavy on May 29, 2019 10:39:50 GMT -6
I was wondering the same thing when I read the manual. rodentnavy have you seen this ASW number drop for a ship in-game just by putting either minesweeping or mines on it? If so, I'd be very curious how much! dizzy I haven't looked there yet, but have you checked the Area tab in the main strategic interface and seen if the numbers there are changing at all? (That tab is new to RtW2 and has minesweeping and minelaying columns, if I'm not mistaken)  I can show you, the Weirdo is an especially designed destroyer minelaying minesweeper and the Weirdos a destroyer minesweeper both designed from the Cossack template represented by Beagle in the screen shot. Not sure whether I added the extra knot inadvertently or some other randomness occurred but there you have it. So ASW 3 rather than 7. Oh I took off a quad torpedoes to save weight for the other gear. Edit so I checked and the number of torps does not seem to affect the ASW value. |
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Post by dizzy on May 29, 2019 11:37:04 GMT -6
Ok I figured it out. I started with a plain jane base model and one that had MS and ML abilities. I then created two variants of the same ship that dropped either the ML or the MS feature and made sure crew quality was equal to eliminate unknown variables during a time of national peace. So here's the verdict.
Having a Destroyer with both ML and MS abilities or a Destroyer with only one of the two does not affect either the Minelaying or Minesweeping numbers in the Area Tab, as Tortugapower mentions is new in RTW2. It's easy to check, just toggle your entire fleet to Reserve Fleet Status and check any ship one at a time as Active Fleet Status. However, the ship that dropped the ML ability with just mines saw it's inherent ASW value more than double.
The Manual is not quite correct in saying, "if the ship has a capability in more than one of these fields (ASW or MS), the effectiveness of each
will be reduced."
While your ASW value isn't affected by having Mines, it is by having Mine Sweeping. The inherent ASW value of a plain Jane Destroyer is the same as one that adds Mines. Add a Minesweeper, though and you can effectively drop your ASW rating by more than half. Also, you may have any mix of mine-sweeping or mine-laying and your values will be unchanged compared to only having one or the other.
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Post by admkotyatkin on May 29, 2019 11:45:36 GMT -6
Ok I figured it out. I started with a plain jane base model and one that had MS and ML abilities. I then created two variants of the same ship that dropped either the ML or the MS feature and made sure crew quality was equal to eliminate unknown variables during a time of national peace. So here's the verdict. Having a Destroyer with both ML and MS abilities or a Destroyer with only one of the two does not affect either the Minelaying or Minesweeping numbers in the Area Tab, as Tortugapower mentions is new in RTW2. It's easy to check, just toggle your entire fleet to Reserve Fleet Status and check any ship one at a time as Active Fleet Status. However, the ship that dropped the ML ability with just mines saw it's inherent ASW value more than double. The Manual is not quite correct in saying, "if the ship has a capability in more than one of these fields (ASW or MS), the effectiveness of each will be reduced." While your ASW value isn't affected by having Mines, it is by having Mine Sweeping. The inherent ASW value of a plain Jane Destroyer is the same as one that adds Mines. Add a Minesweeper, though and you can effectively drop your ASW rating by more than half. Also, you may have any mix of mine-sweeping or mine-laying and your values will be unchanged compared to only having one or the other. That is some valuable info you have there. This should be seen in the manual (Or posted in bugreport in case the devs wanted the ASW to be decreased when mines are added). |
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Post by dorn on May 29, 2019 11:50:47 GMT -6
I was wondering the same thing when I read the manual. rodentnavy have you seen this ASW number drop for a ship in-game just by putting either minesweeping or mines on it? If so, I'd be very curious how much! dizzy I haven't looked there yet, but have you checked the Area tab in the main strategic interface and seen if the numbers there are changing at all? (That tab is new to RtW2 and has minesweeping and minelaying columns, if I'm not mistaken) ASW is halved if ship has minesweeping ability. I have too almost identical class of corvettes and one without and one with minesweeping ability and they are 8/4ms.
I have 32 minesweepers (600 tons) and 4 destroyers (1200 tons) with minesweeping ability and their total minesweeping is 616.
Both classes of minesweepers has 16 points of minesweeping ability, 1200 tons destroyer has 26 points (4 has 104 points).
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Post by tortugapower on May 29, 2019 11:51:44 GMT -6
dizzy very valuable feedback! To summarize: - minesweeping reduces ASW - mines (mine-laying) does not reduce ASW
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Post by aeson on May 29, 2019 12:06:14 GMT -6
have you seen this ASW number drop for a ship in-game just by putting either minesweeping or mines on it? If so, I'd be very curious how much! My impression is that, at least on small ships, minesweeping gear cuts ASW rating more or less in half, rounding down. The (R 1920) designs have neither Increased DC Storage nor Minesweeping Gear, the (R 1920a) designs have Increased DC Storage, the (R 1920b) designs have Minesweeping Gear, and the (R 1920c) designs have both Increased DC Storage and Minesweeping Gear.
Those eight destroyers were legacy fleet designs on a 1920 start and I sent them in for rebuilds to fit them as stated January 1920.
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Post by dizzy on May 29, 2019 12:14:40 GMT -6
Yes, it rounds down. My 5 ASW value was 2 when adding a MS.
Here's another confusing part of the manual related to this topic:
"DD and MS assigned to trade protection will be on ASW patrols or assigned as convoy escorts."
Does this mean that ASW capable ships do not get to use their ability if they are not set to Trade Protection?
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Post by tortugapower on May 29, 2019 14:42:49 GMT -6
Does this mean that ASW capable ships do not get to use their ability if they are not set to Trade Protection? Asking all the right questions, I'd also like to know! |
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