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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2019 9:45:33 GMT -6
Im sorry, but after 67 years of playthrough, I consider the game to be unplayable. Unlike RTW 1, where things seemed to be logical, in RTW 2 there are only random events. Battleship combat - enemy 1 B, we 0 B. Cruiser combat - enemy 3 cruisers out of 3, we have 1 cruier out of 8. Gunfight - enemy CA almost same as our CA - we hit them 57 times, 28 hits were main guns. Enemy hit us 26 times, no heavy hits, ship sinking... yyyeeeaaah suuure. After cca 12 hours of playing, the game constist of 40% playing, 60% task manager. What worked well in RTW 1, in RTW 2 is just a joke...
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Post by ramjb on May 29, 2019 10:06:31 GMT -6
23-November-1939. Aboard HMS merchant "cruiser" Rawalpindi, on patrol in the North Atlantic somewhere south of Iceland:
"SIR! two contacts in the horizon...they are two Scharnhorst class battleships, sir!"
"Oh damn, here's the game's battlemaking system acting again. I swear it ,it's bugged. The admiralty made sure the enemy had only two battleships, a handful of cruisers and some destroyers active in this Maritime Area, while our own fleet has 7 battleships, three carriers, three battlecruisers, dozens of cruisers and I dont know how many destroyers in here, and it's US, who we're pitted against two BBs in battle"
"Sir! they're firing to us, sir!"
"Oh damn, I quit, this game is unplayable, this is a joke".
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Post by mycophobia on May 29, 2019 10:36:18 GMT -6
After 3 playthrough I can confidently say at least the first 30 years worked as well as ever. RTW1 had these moments too, like when sometime ur B sunk to 1 torp where as theirs took two ad 0 TDS and somehow made it back to port. Even in World of Warships you can some time die to the same ship as yourself despite landing more hits than he did
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2019 12:40:35 GMT -6
23-November-1939. Aboard HMS merchant "cruiser" Rawalpindi, on patrol in the North Atlantic somewhere south of Iceland: "SIR! two contacts in the horizon...they are two Scharnhorst class battleships, sir!" "Oh damn, here's the game's battlemaking system acting again. I swear it ,it's bugged. The admiralty made sure the enemy had only two battleships, a handful of cruisers and some destroyers active in this Maritime Area, while our own fleet has 7 battleships, three carriers, three battlecruisers, dozens of cruisers and I dont know how many destroyers in here, and it's US, who we're pitted against two BBs in battle" "Sir! they're firing to us, sir!" "Oh damn, I quit, this game is unplayable, this is a joke". This is already handled by the raider mechanics that applies each turn. If the game prefer RNG over anything else, I dont see a reason to play it, I can as well throw a dice on my table and have as much fun... And by the way, giving ALWAYS more ships to the enemy when it is my navy who has more ships in total has nothing to do with real war, well its not like the game is anyhow similar to WW2, I just answer your pointless answer.
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Post by ramjb on May 29, 2019 12:50:19 GMT -6
Sun slowly rises over the Denmark Strait. It's the morning of the 24th of May, 1941 aboard the bridge of HMS Prince of Wales.
"Sir! two ships to our starboard!. HMS Hood is signaling they are Bismarck and Prinz Eugen, orders to turn towards them!"
"Good. Helm, two thirds to port; follow Hood and turn towards them, we'll cut the distance to avoid deck hits on the Old Lady, and we'll overpower them at close range. Open fire, bow batteries"
"Sir!, enemy return fire!. Adm Holland is signalling a turn towards port, to unmask aft batteries!"
"Understood, Helm, two thirds to port. Aft turret; stand by to open fire as soon as the enemy is within the arcs of f..."
***Hood blows up***
"...goddamnit, there goes the game again trolling us. So unfair, 2 BB vs a BB and a CA should be a granted win for us but RNG has f*cked us again. I'm quitting this, I can aswell throw dice on my table and have as much fun".
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2019 12:53:30 GMT -6
Sun slowly rises over the Denmark Strait. It's the morning of the 24th of May, 1941 aboard the bridge of HMS Prince of Wales. "Sir! two ships to our starboard!. Hood is signaling they are Bismarck and Prinz Eugen!" "Good, Follow Hood and turn towards them, we'll cut the distance to avoid deck hits on the Old Lady, and we'll overpower them at close range. Open fire, bow batteries" "Sir!, enemy return fire!. Adm Holland is signalling a turn towards port, to unmask aft batteries!" "Understood, Helm, two thirds to port. Aft turret; stand by to open fire as soon as the enemy is within the arcs of f..." ***Hood blows up*** "...goddamnit, there goes the game again trolling us. So unfair, 2 BB vs a BB and a CA should be a granted win for us but RNG has f*cked us again. I'm quitting this, I can aswell throw dice on my table and have as much fun". Another pointless post... What about this: last battle of Bismarck. Bismarck is wrecked by 400 shells, FC out of action, 3 out of 4 turrets out of action, radar smashed into pieces, but the 4th turret turns and shoot a magical shot that *randomly* hits Rodney´s fore parts and sinks it.
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Post by ramjb on May 29, 2019 13:02:46 GMT -6
*Later on, in the early hours of the 24th of May 1941*
"Sir, we're under heavy fire!!. Turret A reports a jam!. Turret Y reported serious trouble with reload minutes ago... Hold on...Sir, Engineering is reporting heavy hits amidships!"
"Damnit...Hold fast everyone! we need to fight and avenge Hood!. Helm, bring us to a cour..."
**a 38cm shell slams against the CT, passes from side to side, exits on the other side and explodes, the whole bridge is shattered**
"Sir...Sir?...sir...we're the only ones alive up here...Y turret reports being jammed. Bridge is destroyed, turret Y reports a complete jam and breakdown of the turret ring, and we only have 2 guns left. Orders, sir?."
"Eff it, transfer command to the secondary bridge, let's get out of here before we're blown up as Hood was"
Meanwhile aboard Bismarck...
"Admiral, the enemy battleship is turning tails!. Should we chase her?"
"Stand by for damage report, I noticed we were hit just a moment ago"
"Aye aye, Admiral... damage control reports a hit on the bows, our fuel transfer systems seem to be compromised, and flood is significant. Damage reports from amidships are notifying of a penetrating hit on boiler room 2, sir, we've lost power on two dynamos and there's significant flooding on the compartment, seems we're about to lose a good part of our top speed".
"Goddamn magical lucky hits, they only had one twin turret left, and they just shot a magical shot that *randomly* hit us and is forcing us to cancel the mission!. Signal Prinz Eugen to break away on her own into the Atlantic. We're off to France, we can't go on like this"
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2019 13:12:43 GMT -6
*Later on, in the early hours of the 24th of May 1941* "Sir, we're under heavy fire!!. Turret A reports a jam!. With Turret Y Jammed minutes ago, we're down to our double turret, sir!. Hold on...Sir, Engineering is reporting heavy hits amidships!" "Damnit...Hold fast everyone! we need to fight and avenge Hood!. Helm, bring us to a cour..." **a 38cm shell slams against the CT, passes from side to side, exits on the other side and explodes, the whole bridge is shattered** "Sir...Sir?...sir...we're the only ones alive up here...Y turret reports being jammed. Bridge is destroyed, and we only have 2 guns left. Orders, sir?." "Eff it, transfer command to the secondary bridge, let's get out of here before we're blown up as Hood was" Meanwhile aboard Bismarck... "Admiral, the enemy battleship is turning tails!. Should we chase her?" "Stand by for damage report, I noticed we were hit just a moment ago" "Aye aye, Admiral... damage control reports a hit on the bows, our fuel transfer systems seem to be compromised, and flood is significant. Damage reports from amidships are notifying of a penetrating hit on boiler room D, sir, we've lost power on two dynamos and there's significant flooding on the compartment, seems we're about to lose a good part of our top speed". "Goddamn magical lucky hits, they only had one twin turret left, and they just shot a magical shot that *randomly* hit us and is forcing us out of cancel the mission!. Signal Prinz Eugen to break away on her own into the Atlantic. We're off to France, we can't go on like this" yeah, so another comparsion: enemy cruisers turret is clearly penetrated with 9in shell, probably containing more than 20kg of explosives... Well, the turret is stuck for 8 minutes before its back into action. IRL not a single thing in that turret would remain on its place after such hit. My ship got hit by 6in shell that did not penetrate the turret armor at all, but whatever, lets make it stuck for 35 minutes... My navy has so many CA´s that it does not know what to do with all of these, but whatever, lest send only one of them into each battle and make the other 5 of its class and 2 pieces of better class ready for action rest in the port... But that does not seem to be a problem for the enemy, as he always have all the ships in region in the battle even if its defensive from their POV. Yeah, lets just take a single cruiser when we can expect more than one enemy cruiser and we have shitloads of cruisers to spare... Yeeeaaah, so many real life comparsions... Lets just place in another pointless comparsion to the Kreigsmarine which had exactly 0 ships to spare...
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Post by entropyavatar on May 29, 2019 13:14:35 GMT -6
I've played a lot of games that use a fairly straightforward damage model where each ship operates at full effectiveness until its "hitpoints" are depleted, at which point it blows up. That certainly reduces the effect of chance, but it's not very interesting.
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Post by alsadius on May 29, 2019 13:21:07 GMT -6
What about this: last battle of Bismarck. Bismarck is wrecked by 400 shells, FC out of action, 3 out of 4 turrets out of action, radar smashed into pieces, but the 4th turret turns and shoot a magical shot that *randomly* hits Rodney´s fore parts and sinks it. Yup, that sounds like a thing that could happen. Single lucky shots can take out BBs. It'd basically make the Bismarck raid the equivalent of Jutland - a huge win on paper in terms of materiel losses, but not important to the overall outcome of the war. My ship got hit by 6in shell that did not penetrate the turret armor at all, but whatever, lets make it stuck for 35 minutes... Blowing some debris into the rotation mechanism, which needs to be removed and patched up? That doesn't sound unlikely at all.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2019 13:22:52 GMT -6
I've played a lot of games that use a fairly straightforward damage model where each ship operates at full effectiveness until its "hitpoints" are depleted, at which point it blows up. That certainly reduces the effect of chance, but it's not very interesting. Thats not the point. I was perfectly fine with RTW 1. You just used the correct strategy and won. Simple as that. But now its just a huge load of RNG where one CA with 8x6in guns and 3in armour and sluggish speed car literally wreck two cruisers with 4x9in guns and 5.5in of armour and +4kts top speed in comparsion. And the game should apply the same RNG to AI as it does to the player. My ships engine got damaged without combat like in every 1 of 3 battles, enemy ship never had such troubles like EVER. My ship gets hit into the fore part -> top speed lowered by 5kts. Enemy ship is hit like 25 times with 12in guns, but can maintain its top speed anyway. Yeah, thats not very immersive. Also I would really like to form my own squadrons before the battle, because the game is clearly more OK to giving the upper hand to the weaker AI navy than to players better navy, let alone if the player has weaker navy... I mean, whats the point of building more ships that 2 of each type. 2B, 2CA, 2CL and a few DDs for trade protection. Nothing more is needed because nothing more appears in the battle anyway...
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Post by mycophobia on May 29, 2019 13:22:52 GMT -6
Well if we want to compare damage control, there is always Taiho vs. Enterprise. Lets not forget also that a Japanese Heavy Cruiser Chokai's torpedo rack being set off by what is potentially a deck gun from one of the escort carriers at Samar. Graf Spee pounded Exeter in river Plate but it was Spee that received the blows that condemned her to her fate. -> This actually most clearly mirror ur case, Spee have far stronger weapon, got in quite a few more hit on Exeter than she received from the british cruisers. Only a few hit on spee penetrated but those were critical, where as Exter, despite being badly mauled was able to survive.
You speak of things that by all means would've happened in RTW as they did in RTW2, there is nothing that changed in rtw 2 that would indicate good old gun battles would've worked out any differently minus some potential mess up with the new armor calculations.
In case you haven't noticed, real life naval warfare is random and indeed often full of events that can be attributed to "row of the dice". If you do not like the way that's is, thats unfortunate but that is how things are. I'd even argue this factor of randomness actually makes the game more fun for me, RTW AI is adequate but the greatest, so having to deal with misfortune from time to time is part of the challenge.
Also randomness only get you so far, 99 out of 100 times you will see a poor pre-dread being smashed by a dreadnought, and whos to say that there will never be a case where some lucky pre-dread was able to take out a much newer ship?
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2019 13:26:33 GMT -6
Well if we want to compare damage control, there is always Taiho vs. Enterprise. Lets not forget also that a Japanese Heavy Cruiser's torpedo rack being set off by what is potentially a deck gun from one of the escort carriers at Samar. Graf Spee pounded Exeter in river Plate but it was Spee that received the blows that condemned her to her fate. You speak of things that by all means would've happened in RTW as they did in RTW2, there is nothing that changed in rtw 2 that would indicate good old gun battles would've worked out any differently minus some potential mess up with the new armor calculations. In case you haven't noticed, real life naval warfare is random and indeed often full of events that can be attributed to "row of the dice". If you do not like the way that's is, thats unfortunate but that is how things are. I'd even argue this factor of randomness actually makes the game more fun for me, RTW AI is adequate but the greatest, so having to deal with misfortune from time to time is part of the challenge. Also randomness only get you so far, 99 out of 100 times you will see a poor pre-dread being smashed by a dreadnought, and whos to say that there will never be a case where some lucky pre-dread was able to take out a much newer ship? The difference in damage control is negligible, both sides have +- the same technology in my case. And by the way, in RTW 2 it is not misfortune, it is disadvantage. I just like to use correct words. Misfortune is something that happens sometimes, disadvantage is something that happens constantly.
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Post by ramjb on May 29, 2019 13:27:43 GMT -6
I've played a lot of games that use a fairly straightforward damage model where each ship operates at full effectiveness until its "hitpoints" are depleted, at which point it blows up. That certainly reduces the effect of chance, but it's not very interesting. RtW is not one of them. If you see the modifiers used in the % to hit calculations (through the ship information screen, right click on the ship's shape on the map), you'll see that sustained damage severely affects the fighting ability. The OP just got an unlucky encounter and has just gone ballistic over it. I could keep on making creative dialogues out of historical events to at least keep the joke going, but by this point why bother .
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Post by ramjb on May 29, 2019 13:29:44 GMT -6
My ship got hit by 6in shell that did not penetrate the turret armor at all, but whatever, lets make it stuck for 35 minutes... Blowing some debris into the rotation mechanism, which needs to be removed and patched up? That doesn't sound unlikely at all. Everyday stuff in naval battles, actually. There are multitude of instances on how glancing blows got turrets stuck in place, sometimes for hours, before damage control could unjam them. And then we have PoW's jamming A and Y turrets out of their own volition . But I guess that's covered by the reliability issues inherent to those turrets in the appropiate tech in game.
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