Are all technologies available to all nations?

[stevethecat]

So have just finished my first full 1955 game, Admiral Derpitz of the 'a bit facist but we try not to talk about it' German Empire has now proudly retired and has a shiny new aircraft carrier displaying his name. All good.

Bar one thing, my DD force was utterly trash, as from 1900-1955 with research on max I never got twin mount turrets for DD's unlocked. Which seems odd as I'm sure my ship designers would have noticed that the French had these for what felt like a life time and were using them to great effect to blap my poor DD's out of existence.

There were a few other techs which never seemed to pop up, such as angled decks and various bits and pieces.

can the Germans have these techs? I'm guessing I was just unlucky with the research dice rolls but are certains techs locked out from certain nations?

[aeson]

All techs are available to all nations.

[lukasdietrich]

AFAIK based on RTW1 and RTW2 there is no tech 'tree' but it seems like all techs have a cost associated with them. And as you allocate research to them your team generates 'research points'
Low tier techs like 600 ton DD have a low threshold. Others have a much higher.
However, it seems like when you reach this threshold it's not an automatic unlock. You have have the points to get the tech but there is a RNG chance each turn that the tech will fire once you have 'paid for it'

That can lead to weird things like getting 15 inch guns before 14 inch guns. Or getting 4 centerline turrets before 3. Or my personal annoyance, being able to superimpose aft turrets and NEVER being able to do it for forward turrets the entire game.

It seems like if you put tech on 100% speed there is less overall weirdness. In RTW1 if I wanted a very slow game I would put tech speed at 60% and all kinds of general silliness would occur.
I have not played enough RTW2 yet to see if this is still true.

So the long answer to your question is, I think you got unlucky.

Also note that most of what I said above is a guess ans is only my personal experiences. I may have the behind the scenes coding completely wrong and they have an entirely different system from what I have explained. It just seems from my games played that what I described seems to be how it ends up playing out.

[mycophobia]

After many games of rtw1 and a couple of rtw 2 I do feel certain tech progress at different rates for different countries, that being said, I think any country can get access to any tech in game. Although bad luck, low research priority, lack of national bonus combined can delay some tech considerably.

I do find certain things annoying, like being unable to superimpose forward turret mentioned above. I get that there are going to be some technical difference between the two, but I don't think it should be far fetched at all to go from one to the other. It will make more sense if your naval architect and theorist simply remains stubborn about superimposed turret in general, then insisting they only go on the butt of your ship for 10 years.

[JagdFlanker]

random, and it gets much more random once you check the variable tech box

but that's what makes the game fun - you get some things sooner, but other things later so each game is different

current game as A-H i played at 50% tech/variable and didn't get 3 centerline turrets until 1930, but also got improved quad turrets in 1930 before i even got basic triple turrets which was nice

[orkel]

Variable tech at 60-80% research rate is fun.

[bcoopactual]

Jun 10, 2019 12:05:26 GMT -6 lukasdietrich said:

AFAIK based on RTW1 and RTW2 there is no tech 'tree' but it seems like all techs have a cost associated with them. And as you allocate research to them your team generates 'research points'
Low tier techs like 600 ton DD have a low threshold. Others have a much higher.
However, it seems like when you reach this threshold it's not an automatic unlock. You have have the points to get the tech but there is a RNG chance each turn that the tech will fire once you have 'paid for it'

That can lead to weird things like getting 15 inch guns before 14 inch guns. Or getting 4 centerline turrets before 3. Or my personal annoyance, being able to superimpose aft turrets and NEVER being able to do it for forward turrets the entire game.

It seems like if you put tech on 100% speed there is less overall weirdness. In RTW1 if I wanted a very slow game I would put tech speed at 60% and all kinds of general silliness would occur.
I have not played enough RTW2 yet to see if this is still true.

So the long answer to your question is, I think you got unlucky.

Also note that most of what I said above is a guess ans is only my personal experiences. I may have the behind the scenes coding completely wrong and they have an entirely different system from what I have explained. It just seems from my games played that what I described seems to be how it ends up playing out.

ddg and I spent a bit of time studying how the research system worked in RTW1 and it doesn't appear to be much different, except for the listed changes in the manual, in RTW2.  Each technology has a nominal year for its discovery; a Y or N; a percent chance of being researched initially when the previous research is finished; a cost in RP; a tech number used to assign bonus techs to various nations and a basic description. 

It will look like this in the ResearchAreas.DAT file:   Torpedo protection I;1906;N;80;6;403;Enables Torpedo protection I on ships


Researching a technology prior to the year listed for the tech results in the RP accumulation rate for that tech being throttled until the tech is researched or the game year reaches the nominal year for the tech.  This keeps large budget nations from running away technology wise from the smaller budget nations (No tanks vs. spearmen a la the Civilization series).  Note, there is some randomness built into the amount of RP accumulated each turn per area so the amount of RP gained in an area each month can be more or less than expected just based on the game year. 

The Y/N represents how likely other nations are to be able to research an item once it is completed by one nation.  For example, Once any nation researches triple turrets (a Y tech) and everyone else sees that it is feasible it increases the chance that those other nations will research it as well when they get to it on the tech tree.

The next number is the percent chance (80% for the TPS 1 example above) that that tech will be researched when the previous tech is completed.  This introduces an element of randomness to the game.  If a technology is skipped initially, the game will go back and check to see if the technology will be researched later after the next technology in that area is researched (or you could end up stealing it or buying it from another nation) so usually unless it's a late game tech you will eventually research it so it's not a one-and-done chance. 

In RTW1, the next number was the amount of RP (multiplied by 20,000) that was needed to complete the research.  I haven't specifically checked that it's still 20,000 in RTW2.  Once you reach that threshold the tech is always completed. 

The last number is the Tech ID number used to assign it as a bonus tech in the BNat.dat file for various nations. 


Some sequential techs like the number of centerline turrets or torpedo protection systems effectively complete the previous one if the previous one was initially skipped. 

I don't think I've ever researched gun calibers out of order though.  But I don't know that that is impossible.  I have bought a gun caliber from another nation though prior to researching the smaller caliber. (14 inch guns from the UK prior to researching 13 inch guns myself)  

[aeson]

I don't think I've ever researched gun calibers out of order though. But I don't know that that is impossible. I have bought a gun caliber from another nation though prior to researching the smaller caliber. (14 inch guns from the UK prior to researching 13 inch guns myself)

It's possible; I've had it happen a couple times in Rule the Waves, though developing guns in order is far more common, and in my current Italy game in Rule the Waves 2 I've developed every caliber of gun except 19":

Pretty sure I haven't purchased any heavy guns overseas this game, either.

According to the Almanac for the same game, the US and Britain have both skipped over 17" and 19" guns despite having 18" and 20" guns, France and Austria-Hungary have both skipped 17" despite having 18" guns, Germany has everything through 18" but nothing heavier, and Russia has everything through 16" but nothing heavier.

[alsadius]

Yeah, my current game I unlocked 18" without having 17".

[dorn]

Some research explained and I do not think it has changed from RTW1.

[kelseyeek]

Does it follow that gun calibers are developed sequentially? In the lead up to the Yamato, did the Japanese develop a 17" weapon in order to get to a working 18" version?

Personally I've always been frustrated that the game is random in this regard, leaving open gun calibers I've no intention of ever using. I'd love to be able to prioritize my research to say "we're standardizing on 5" for DD and Light Cruisers, 8" for heavy cruisers, and 16" for battleships and battle cruisers. Any improvements to the quality / range / rate of fire / accuracy of those weapons will be rewarded. Anyone brings me a new improved 2" or 7" weapon will be buried with it." Whether those are good choices or not is another matter.

[oldpop2000]

Jun 11, 2019 15:04:25 GMT -6 kelseyeek said:

Does it follow that gun calibers are developed sequentially? In the lead up to the Yamato, did the Japanese develop a 17" weapon in order to get to a working 18" version?

Personally I've always been frustrated that the game is random in this regard, leaving open gun calibers I've no intention of ever using. I'd love to be able to prioritize my research to say "we're standardizing on 5" for DD and Light Cruisers, 8" for heavy cruisers, and 16" for battleships and battle cruisers. Any improvements to the quality / range / rate of fire / accuracy of those weapons will be rewarded. Anyone brings me a new improved 2" or 7" weapon will be buried with it." Whether those are good choices or not is another matter.

The answer to your question is no, the Japanese developed the 16.1 for the Nagato's and then began developing 18.1 inch Yamato guns. There was never, in the records, a 17.1 inch gun.

[alsadius]

Likewise, the Brits went 12" -> 13.5" -> 15" on their BBs. So whatever method of rounding you use, they skipped a step.

Until we get something like this gun customization system that was suggested, though, I'd just roll with it.

[lukasdietrich]

The USN went from 12" to 14" to 16" and were very happy with their guns and shells so they stopped there.
They did briefly draw up some plans for 17" and 18" guns for a possible Iowa conversion to deal with IJN battleships and also the possibility of shore bombardment against Japeanese home islands and cave complexes but never got very far with the ideas.
And with the advent of air power and their happiness with the 16"/50 MK7

[rob06waves2018]

Jun 11, 2019 15:04:25 GMT -6 kelseyeek said:

Does it follow that gun calibers are developed sequentially? In the lead up to the Yamato, did the Japanese develop a 17" weapon in order to get to a working 18" version?

Personally I've always been frustrated that the game is random in this regard, leaving open gun calibers I've no intention of ever using. I'd love to be able to prioritize my research to say "we're standardizing on 5" for DD and Light Cruisers, 8" for heavy cruisers, and 16" for battleships and battle cruisers. Any improvements to the quality / range / rate of fire / accuracy of those weapons will be rewarded. Anyone brings me a new improved 2" or 7" weapon will be buried with it." Whether those are good choices or not is another matter.

"IF I GET ANOTHER ******* 11" GUN IMPROVEMENT, DON'T BOTHER DEVELOPING A PROJECTILE BECAUSE YOU'LL BE THE PROTOTYPE!"

*Wimpers "Yes sir"

"NOW GET OUT OF MY SIGHT AND DON'T COME BACK WITHOUT A NEW 16" GUN DESIGN!"

*Sound of a foot hitting a well-padded backside

*Door slams