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Post by mycophobia on Jul 13, 2019 18:00:47 GMT -6
Poor 500 ton dds and the stuff they have to endure for dramatic "sailing in the storm" photos... I love the comparison between classes and how it give a sense to the thought that went behind changes and the minor details like gun positions. (I always have a soft spot for reading these little details ) Looking forward to you getting finishing your starting fleet, we are both one more ship to go
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Post by akosjaccik on Jul 16, 2019 8:40:32 GMT -6
Poor 500 ton dds and the stuff they have to endure for dramatic "sailing in the storm" photos... I love the comparison between classes and how it give a sense to the thought that went behind changes and the minor details like gun positions. (I always have a soft spot for reading these little details ) Looking forward to you getting finishing your starting fleet, we are both one more ship to go Hey, as long as they are not being shot at, I am not accepting any excuse from them. You absolutely beat me though, as so far I hasn't even started my final pre-dread yet. I did screw around though, and while I constantly reminded myself to "not spam the boards!", agan I have stuff to talk about. No doubt the time will come when I have to seriously slow down, but for now...
The stuff research will lead us to...
In engineering, modeling a phenomenon is often more about "how much" than "how" - picking important details and parameters, and ditching ones that will needlessly complicate the model/system and maybe even only add to the noise level, is an art in itself. ...and I am fairly bad at it. Fortunately, I&I is but a hobby/game, so if I start to rampage trough incoherent and sometimes self-contradictory masses of data, I screw over noone but myself. And my readers.
Anyway, an example. Everything started with this picture:
An excellent opportunity for me to inform myself more about "small"-caliber ammunitions and early torpedoes, so let's start reading. As per usual, things went downhill from there veery quickly in terms of coherence - but as the internet did it's wonders, I came across a variety of extremely interesting stuff. For example, here is a page from the 1916 edition of the Almanach für die k. und k. Kriegsmarine, which deals with armor penetration formulas against - my german is very rusty, but - apparently Krupp cemented plates, Harvey plates, unhardened steel etc., maybe some of you'll find it useful. The handbook seemed extremely rich in information, so I looked up how much would it cost to get a hold on one. Well, more than ~150 EUR / ~170 USD. Yeeah, not going to happen. ...but, back to the torpedoes! Did I get any wiser? Nah, of course not, however I dug up more interesting materials. Not ones I needed, but still! For example, here is a relatively recent photo album about the Whitehead Torpedo Factory in modern day Rijeka. When the complex was closed in the '90s, for a long time it did produce tractors instead of torpedoes, but you can still see some oddities inside, like the torpedo testing platform, a torpedo tube (that is however a soviet model from the '70s), and some machinery. The Weiss-Manfréd horizontal mill is at least 70 years old, and it's the same company whose fighter aircraft (WM-23) I modeled back in the BNA topic. For myself, the most interesting piece is the one what's probably an Abbe-type lenght measuring instrument.
Yes, yes, but what about the torpedoes and the shells? Yes, about those. Uuuh...
Here is a render about a Tiger-class instead!
I was not going to use this picture at all, since I dislike it for multiple reasons and I made it just for "excercise's sake", but I am starting to feel bad for littering the topic with all kinds of thrash instead of the, you know, the actual AAR, so I have to make up for it somehow. So, let's pre-dreadnought! *slams the table* Focus!
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Post by mycophobia on Jul 16, 2019 9:45:59 GMT -6
While I finished faster I do have one less pre-dread to work through than you did While I do look forward to your second pre-dread I dont think going on the side tangents are really that bad. Looking up information on ship designs and weaponry really made this a learning experience in addition to the fun from building, writing and playing. If you can learn a bunch of things while having fun, sharing those with others is a win win
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Post by Adseria on Jul 17, 2019 4:38:28 GMT -6
Anyway, an example. Everything started with this picture:
That's a terrible ship design! There's no way they'd be able to fit all those torpedoes and shells in such a small ship! I mean, do they use those 2 boats as magazines or something?
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Post by akosjaccik on Jul 17, 2019 6:28:24 GMT -6
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Post by Adseria on Jul 17, 2019 8:26:45 GMT -6
...I kinda wanna know what would happen if one of them hit a battleship now.
Not the torpedoes, the entire boat.
...Anyone got a Bismarck lying around? XD
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Post by akosjaccik on Jul 21, 2019 13:21:38 GMT -6
Today I have the honor to finally introduce the final member of the fleet! Interestingly, I was so tangled up on working with the other ships that for all this time while I knew I had three remaining pre-dreads, the only name I was aware of was the lead ships' one. Then again, in a way they started their existence and earned their names only not long ago. They are...
...the Wien, the Monarch and the Habsburg. To compare them with our earlier acquaintance, the S.M.S. Erzherzog Franz Ferdinand, I slapped together an unnecessarily large image about the comparison (edit - even I have a heart, so I cut and resized it):
As you can see, the differences are not that screaming, and the main point is the extra 9" rifle which required the bigger displacement - this is sort of reflected in the not-horribly-serious numerical comparison in an earlier post, where the E.F.F. gained a score of "71%", whereas the Wien-class "78%". For a decent step forward we have to visit the shipyards of the STT, where a new class is waiting to be finished on the slips in less than a year - but that's a story for another day. To get back to the Wien, note the upper casemate! As the clear historical counterpart of the E.F.F. was the Habsburg-class, we can also draw a good parallel with the Wiens and - ironically - the historical Erzherzog-class. These ships had their secondaries installed in an interesting mixed arrangement, both casemated and in single turrets. Semi-semi-dreadnoughts, huh? Joke aside, RtW2 does clock out at three different kinds of armament, meaning that I could only implement such design by ditching the (actual) tertiaries, and also here's the fact that in RtW2 my save's Wien-class does not have secondaries installed in turrets. ...but maybe I'll take the "artistic" (cough...) liberty to illustrate such arrangement in spite all of this on the next class, the final and currently built legacy design. After all, the Dual Monarchy has a Wien, might as well have a Budapest. (No joke - the random generator had some fun apparently). Finally, to absolutely murder any remaining bandwith of yours, allow me to illustrate them with a rendering!
The Austro-Hungarian battleline. To the aft: the Monarch, as seen from the Wien. You can also see the rangefinder, roughly modeled after the Barr&Stroud FA2
Edit: Forgot to show you that while I am fairly on-point with the game <---> model technical specifications, I wasn't horribly rigorous when it came to the random-generated top-down drawings. This time I took a shot at trying to diverging from historical reality (and going with the game) in this regard as well:
Huh! That was already quite the journey, and I still can't technically start the game, after all, d*cking around with half-baked 3D-models was naught but a pre-requirement to print and build these models - which is the actual requirement for me to be able to use the ships. I mean, technically the rules allow me to start the game, but maybe mothballing 75% of my battleships and 100% of my armored cruisers would not bode well for a beginning. Even so, the Fleet is armed and ready at least in the "digital sphere", so allow me to celebrate with you guys myself getting completely exthauste this moment with this uuh... let's call it "poster" below! Please, take it as a silly little "Thank you!" for your amazing support and encouragement I have gotten from you so far! Herzliche Danke!
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Post by mycophobia on Jul 21, 2019 14:07:53 GMT -6
I also take game's top-down drawings fairly loosely, partly because I suck at making them look good, and I feel taking liberties from the top down view also helps you with making more interesting designs (it was quite a pain to fit the 3in guns on the Canada class, and I took a bit of liberty with Calgary class's stacked 6in casemate, which was fun)
As for the BBs, they actually might be fairly adequate for their size. The armor is more than enough if my experience against the German in my AAR is any indication (The thin belt edge might be a problem tho), and the fast(for now) speed is definitely a nice asset.
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Post by mycophobia on Jul 23, 2019 17:59:13 GMT -6
To honor the good will visit and amazing friendship demonstrated by the Crew of S.M.S. Sankt Georg in their visit to Halifax, The Canadian navy offers to provide one of its Creston class destroyer(one that is most superficially similar to the Tiger Class of the Austro-Hungarian Navy) to conduct the experimental (Literal)TorpedoBoat TM conversion brought up by Prof. Adseria and planned by Admiral akosjaccik . Now the conversion is finally carried out by the Canadian navy. I Present to you : The Creston Class (Literal) TorpedoBoatDue to a break in the law of physics resulting from such an extreme design that send this ship into outer space when ever it travels at speed greater than roughly 25 knots, She had to be reduced to only about 23-24knot of speed, but this is compensated by generous package of explody stuff inside her to ensure damage Here is live testing against a typical Dreadnought Aimed and readyEre we go!ImpactMaybe we should've aimed for magazine...
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Post by Adseria on Jul 24, 2019 2:10:39 GMT -6
To honor the good will visit and amazing friendship demonstrated by the Crew of S.M.S. Sankt Georg in their visit to Halifax, The Canadian navy offers to provide one of its Creston class destroyer(one that is most superficially similar to the Tiger Class of the Austro-Hungarian Navy) to conduct the experimental (Literal)TorpedoBoat TM conversion brought up by Prof. Adseria and planned by Admiral akosjaccik . Now the conversion is finally carried out by the Canadian navy. I Present to you : The Creston Class (Literal) TorpedoBoatDue to a break in the law of physics resulting from such an extreme design that send this ship into outer space when ever it travels at speed greater than roughly 25 knots, She had to be reduced to only about 23-24knot of speed, but this is compensated by generous package of explody stuff inside her to ensure damage Here is live testing against a typical Dreadnought Aimed and readyEre we go!ImpactMaybe we should've aimed for magazine...You know, I feel like it might be more efficient and effective to just build another HMS Campbeltown...
EDIT: Also, not entirely sure that "professor" is entirely accurate.
EDIT 2: It just occurred to me that we're basically just inventing the manned torpedo, except worse.
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Post by akosjaccik on Jul 24, 2019 5:52:20 GMT -6
You know... that might actually be the answer to most of the problems in 1900. Except for the, you know, "blowing up our own crew"-problem. Maybe investing into catapult seat development would be a prudent thing to do, although I am uncertain how much propellant would those seats need to get clear of four hundred kilograms of wet guncotton.
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Post by Adseria on Jul 24, 2019 7:12:28 GMT -6
You know... that might actually be the answer to most of the problems in 1900. Except for the, you know, "blowing up our own crew"-problem. Maybe investing into catapult seat development would be a prudent thing to do, although I am uncertain how much propellant would those seats need to get clear of four hundred kilograms of wet guncotton.
Point it in the direction of the bad guys and then get into the lifeboats.
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Post by rimbecano on Jul 27, 2019 3:17:35 GMT -6
Funnily enough:
A) I actually had one of my destroyers ram an Italian cruiser in the first war of my current AH game.
B) The Austrians *were* somewhat responsible for the ram-bow craze IRL...
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Post by Adseria on Jul 27, 2019 3:37:54 GMT -6
B) The Austrians *were* somewhat responsible for the ram-bow craze IRL... That's a good point. I don't think they regularly put rams on destroyers, though. Or torpedoes bigger than the ship itself.
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Post by akosjaccik on Jul 29, 2019 17:32:27 GMT -6
Just a quick update while the fine gentlemen above are ramming stuff in exquisite Lissa-style: in the next maybe two days, I am planning to print like an animal, so as to possibly start the campaign sometime next week. Until that - let's fly!
EDIT: You know, on a second thought - let's maybe not. I guess the "pilot experience bug" isn't making this the absolute best time to practice.
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