How do I make carriers work right?

[alsadius]

So far I've had a carrier spawn into two battles, and in both it launches its whole wing as scouts immediately when the battle stops. How do I make it not do that? This is really frustrating - I stopped before a tick happened, checked status, and then one minute later they were already spotted and getting ready for launch. Even ordering no search, they start taking off at minute 3. And the window where I ordered no search wouldn't pop up until a minute had passed. 

What am I missing here? Do I need to just make my CVLs big enough that they can throw away six or eight TBs on recon, and still have enough to operate? Is there another carrier-capable class I can use as recon instead? I'm just really cranky here. 

[aeson]

Jun 19, 2019 20:55:52 GMT -6 alsadius said:

Do I need to just make my CVLs big enough that they can throw away six or eight TBs on recon, and still have enough to operate?

If you want your CVLs to provide aerial reconnaissance while remaining strike-capable? Yes. That said, CVLs are always going to be a bit short on aircraft for something - they can only carry at most 34 aircraft, and 34 planes isn't that many to use to provide CAP, reconnaissance, and strike capability all at once. Getting several CVLs in the same force would also help this a bit, since to my recollection not every carrier will launch a full search group, but that's not really under your control, and the only surefire answer to losing striking power to air searches is for all your carriers to carry enough aircraft that sending out the air search isn't that big a deal.

Is there another carrier-capable class I can use as recon instead?

Yes and no. Carriers will use any available aircraft for reconnaissance, but of the carrier-capable aircraft, torpedo bombers are the first choice, dive bombers second, and fighters last. Also, even if you were to use some other carrier-capable aircraft for reconnaissance, you'll still be running into the issue that CVLs simply don't have that many planes to go around

Floatplane scouts are preferred over carrier-capable types for reconnaissance if you have Floatplane Search Priority checked in the Doctrine menu but are the last choice otherwise - not that they're carrier-capable anyways.

Even ordering no search, they start taking off at minute 3. And the window where I ordered no search wouldn't pop up until a minute had passed.

If ordering the carrier division not to conduct an air search isn't working, perhaps try reducing the scale of the air search - the game sends up one plane per 20 degrees of arc in the automatic search pattern, so you should be able to limit the number of aircraft that fly off on the search if you adjust the size of the search pattern. You should also get the aircraft back sooner if you cut the search range down from the default.

[alsadius]

I don't want my carriers doing air search - I had two AVs in the group for that. But the window where I tell them to stop wasn't even opening - I couldn't alter search parameters either.

I'll try again in my next battle.

[garrisonchisholm]

Jun 19, 2019 20:55:52 GMT -6 alsadius said:

Even ordering no search, they start taking off at minute 3. And the window where I ordered no search wouldn't pop up until a minute had passed. 

If you go to the ship roster on the battle screen left, you can right-click every airbase and carrier force before you even start the clock, and dictate all of their searches.  Doing this you should be able to successfully edit your searches, minimizing or eliminating them.

If the battle is being at all fought near friendly bases I try to have airships handle all search roles, reserving as many planes as possible for attack.

[alsadius]

I tried right-clicking the carrier force and the carrier itself, and found no option that seemed likely to affect air search. What option am I looking for?

And yes, I had flying boats to search with on top of the AVs. This is why it's frustrating.

[aeson]

Jun 19, 2019 22:53:56 GMT -6 alsadius said:

I tried right-clicking the carrier force and the carrier itself, and found no option that seemed likely to affect air search. What option am I looking for? 

The one that says "Search Pattern," presumably, though it brings up the menu that you say isn't working for you.

[jorgencab]

From a historic perspective the Japanese fleet tended to want to use land based air planes to scout for their carrier strike groups so they would not reveal there was a carrier close in the area. I also like to use float-planes for recon if possible so I can use the carriers for as much strike force as possible. It depends on the search area needed to be covered obviously. Having an AV cruiser in the area is always nice as well for this purpose.

[dizzy]

Turning OFF the auto search, which uses your torpedo bombers, has to be done on turn ZERO before doing anything else. You open the Search window at the top right, the button with the plane/circle next to the Air Strike button and there's a toggle for No Search. Click that. It won't work if you have moved on to turn 1 or later. The Search feature is a one time use, unfortunately. I'd like to be able to use it more than once. Supposedly it works at dawn the following day, but I havent been able to get it to work a second time.

[JagdFlanker]

Jun 19, 2019 23:53:48 GMT -6 aeson said:

Jun 19, 2019 22:53:56 GMT -6 alsadius said:

I tried right-clicking the carrier force and the carrier itself, and found no option that seemed likely to affect air search. What option am I looking for? 

The one that says "Search Pattern," presumably, though it brings up the menu that you say isn't working for you.

you can turn off the search pattern this way as well for both carrier groups and individual airbases - seems if you turn off the search for 1 carrier group you turn search off for all carrier groups, which i don't mind since i always turn off search for all carrier groups in every battle

i re-do the searches for airbases during the night (seems they completely reset once night hits or when you re-enter the search screen, wish it would save my previous search settings for each base), and bases will launch a new search in the morning based on what you set during the night - i *believe* planes take off an hour before dawn so make sure you reset the search early enough

[dohboy]

Be sure you have the "floatplane search priority" option selected in the doctrine section.

Not sure why this is even an option. There is no box I have to check to use fighters for CAP rather than dive bombers.

[rodentnavy]

Jun 20, 2019 4:45:43 GMT -6 dohboy said:

Be sure you have the "floatplane search priority" option selected in the doctrine section.

Not sure why this is even an option. There is no box I have to check to use fighters for CAP rather than dive bombers.

I think the reason is because dive and torpedo bombers were often used as scouts.  Take the Fairey Barracuda for instance, that high wing was to allow the observer a better field of vision in a scouting role.  

[dohboy]

It makes sense to use TBs and DBs if you don't have any available floatplane SCOUTS. The priority should always go to the purpose built aircraft.

[aeson]

Jun 20, 2019 6:38:13 GMT -6 dohboy said:

It makes sense to use TBs and DBs if you don't have any available floatplane SCOUTS. The priority should always go to the purpose built aircraft.

It depends a bit on what your priorities are when you request aircraft, but floatplanes are not infrequently inferior in both range and speed to torpedo and dive bombers, which means that they make worse scouts than the bombers do. Should priority go to the purpose-built aircraft or to the better scout aircraft? Floatplanes are also arguably more inconvenient to use than carrier aircraft since your ships need to slow to 10 knots to recover them and have to stop to launch them if the ships aren't equipped with catapults.

Also, historically, one of the early reasons to build carriers was to replace the seaplane carriers as the ships providing the fleet with aerial reconnaissance, and in the British Royal and US Navies carrier aircraft were preferred over cruiser floatplanes for reconnaissance when available.

[dohboy]

Those are good points, but it always asks me if I want to stop to launch floatplanes or catapult them at the search start time, I could say no if I wanted carrier based aircraft to perform the search. The priority option is ok if you are aware of it, I always turn it on in the first turn.

[alsadius]

Okay, just had another battle. The window came up, I clicked "no search" on turn 0, and every torpedo bomber I owned promptly got launched as a search plane. What the hell.