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Post by enrico69 on Jun 20, 2019 19:25:16 GMT -6
Hello  I am playing France, started in 1900 and now in 1943 (I may have the same issue with Italy). I have a lot of available techs but is struggling when designing what some could name "Heavy destroyers", for instance the Mogador, or light cruisers, for instance the Capitani Romani. When trying to design those ship I am blocked by limitations such as: - Armor is forbidden on DD (so exit the Mogador...) - Centerline torpedo tubes are forbidden on CL (so exit the Capitani Romani) Is it a tech issue or that the game simply forbid this kind of layout?  Regards Eric |
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Post by aeson on Jun 20, 2019 20:12:56 GMT -6
There are a couple late-game technologies (More powerful compressed air ejection c.1937 and Advanced centerline torpedo mounts c.1939) which allow centerline torpedo tubes to be placed on larger warships.
I do not believe that there is anything that allows destroyers to be armored in the game, though that shouldn't really be an issue for approximating Mogador - at ~2,950 tons (standard) or ~3,950 tons (deep load), it's a ship that the game can only really approximate as a CL anyways; destroyers can't be built larger than 2,500 tons.
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Post by orkel on Jun 21, 2019 1:53:16 GMT -6
This is the closest I could get to a Capitani Romani CL using my 1970 Italy save, though I'm not sure how likely building it is with 1940 mid-game tech.
In-game max speed is 39, can't go to the historical 41-43. Also only 30 mines max instead of historical 70. Some armour (1in) is added or else the ship gets classified as an AMC instead of CL, it's still pretty much "unarmored" with that though.
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Post by dorn on Jun 21, 2019 3:07:00 GMT -6
Issue with speeds over 35 knots even for destroyers are that machinery is too heavy. And even 1 or 2 knots have no reason in RTW2 as it does not give appropriate advantage for the costs.
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Post by enrico69 on Jun 21, 2019 6:21:42 GMT -6
Hello
OK so now I see it is mostly a game "issue" to be able to design specific case, which I perfectly understand since it is very difficult to adapt to everything.
I also encountered another tiny impediment: the impossibility to have an extended armored deck without extended armored belt (like on the french Dunkerque and Richelieu).
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Post by christian on Jun 22, 2019 4:40:45 GMT -6
Issue with speeds over 35 knots even for destroyers are that machinery is too heavy. And even 1 or 2 knots have no reason in RTW2 as it does not give appropriate advantage for the costs. this destroyers such as the shimakaze reached 39 knots despite being only around 2500 tons the french le fantastique reached an insane 45 knots at merely 2500 tons again in addition to this these ships had atleast 8 tubes and 5 guns these ships were not only heavily armed but also EXTREMELY fast closest i could get to shimakaze first pic second pic is le fantastique what i find interesting looking at shimakaze and le fantastique is that their horsepower was at 75k and 74k respectively while in game we land at an enourmous 85.6k even when lowering the machinery power to 76k (38 knots) it is still too heavy for the le fantastique (the lightest of the 2) Attachments:
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Post by rodentnavy on Jun 22, 2019 5:18:49 GMT -6
Issue with speeds over 35 knots even for destroyers are that machinery is too heavy. And even 1 or 2 knots have no reason in RTW2 as it does not give appropriate advantage for the costs. this destroyers such as the shimakaze reached 39 knots despite being only around 2500 tons the french le fantastique reached an insane 45 knots at merely 2500 tons again in addition to this these ships had atleast 8 tubes and 5 guns these ships were not only heavily armed but also EXTREMELY fast closest i could get to shimakaze first pic second pic is le fantastique what i find interesting looking at shimakaze and le fantastique is that their horsepower was at 75k and 74k respectively while in game we land at an enourmous 85.6k even when lowering the machinery power to 76k (38 knots) it is still too heavy for the le fantastique (the lightest of the 2) I think the issue is the game tries to model operationally achievable speeds rather than the best speed that could be managed for one hour in speed trials. The le Fantasque class is a good example of this with the headline speed being far in excess of the kind of speeds achievable day in day out and that not counting the long periods in dockyard hands being fixed again. |
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Post by christian on Jun 22, 2019 5:58:13 GMT -6
this destroyers such as the shimakaze reached 39 knots despite being only around 2500 tons the french le fantastique reached an insane 45 knots at merely 2500 tons again in addition to this these ships had atleast 8 tubes and 5 guns these ships were not only heavily armed but also EXTREMELY fast closest i could get to shimakaze first pic second pic is le fantastique what i find interesting looking at shimakaze and le fantastique is that their horsepower was at 75k and 74k respectively while in game we land at an enourmous 85.6k even when lowering the machinery power to 76k (38 knots) it is still too heavy for the le fantastique (the lightest of the 2) I think the issue is the game tries to model operationally achievable speeds rather than the best speed that could be managed for one hour in speed trials. The le Fantasque class is a good example of this with the headline speed being far in excess of the kind of speeds achievable day in day out and that not counting the long periods in dockyard hands being fixed again. do keep in mind 45 knots was achieved without overcharging the engines that is maximum operational speed you can push the le fantastique even beyond that point for probably a few hours BUT after those hours engine performance will permanently drop by a few knots maximum operational speeds is the maximum speed the ship can maintain in battle without causing damage to its own machinery and for the le fantastique that is 45 knots granted her sisters couldnt all do the same (although the slowest in class was far from slow at 42.5 knots) she holds the surface speed record to this day for large ships the shimakaze had a maximum speed of 41 knots but the experimental boilers proved to have problems with it and thus the combat speed was reduced to 39 knots to avoid damage and breakdowns it still dosent change the fact ships in game should be able to go 39 knots at combat speed yet that is basically impossible with the weight and how much horsepower is needed for 39 knots and the weight again this can also be seen by the fact the iowa could realistically reach an insane 36 knots if she began killing her own engines WE HAVE A SETTING SPECIFICALLY for engines which are made for speed (aka less reliable and cant sustain it forever)the speed setting for engines |
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Post by dorn on Jun 22, 2019 6:05:24 GMT -6
I look at game, you can go to different speed dependent tonnage.
However you cannot even close to 40 knots for destroyers and with speed over 35 knots you need to sacrifice guns or torpedo tubes quite a lot as 1 knot usually costs (tonnage) as whole armament.
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Post by dorn on Jun 22, 2019 6:18:03 GMT -6
I think it could be interesting to build in RTW2 battleship with oil fired engine and speed of 24 knots about 1915 and look after 20 years how much tonnage engine replacement do.
HMS Warspite refit:
"This increased fuel efficiency, reducing fuel consumption from 41 tons per hour to 27 at almost 24 knots, and gave the warship 80,000 shp. The 1,500-long-ton (1,524 t) weight saving on the lighter machinery was used to increase protection and armament."
May be machinery should get more technologically buff to be lighter.
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Post by christian on Jun 22, 2019 6:58:56 GMT -6
I think it could be interesting to build in RTW2 battleship with oil fired engine and speed of 24 knots about 1915 and look after 20 years how much tonnage engine replacement do. HMS Warspite refit: "This increased fuel efficiency, reducing fuel consumption from 41 tons per hour to 27 at almost 24 knots, and gave the warship 80,000 shp. The 1,500-long-ton (1,524 t) weight saving on the lighter machinery was used to increase protection and armament." May be machinery should get more technologically buff to be lighter. machinery does get lighter thats what the machinery research area is for |
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Post by dorn on Jun 22, 2019 7:15:51 GMT -6
I think it could be interesting to build in RTW2 battleship with oil fired engine and speed of 24 knots about 1915 and look after 20 years how much tonnage engine replacement do. HMS Warspite refit: "This increased fuel efficiency, reducing fuel consumption from 41 tons per hour to 27 at almost 24 knots, and gave the warship 80,000 shp. The 1,500-long-ton (1,524 t) weight saving on the lighter machinery was used to increase protection and armament." May be machinery should get more technologically buff to be lighter. machinery does get lighter thats what the machinery research area is for Yes, but it should probably get lighter more. |
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euchrejack
Full Member
Don't feed the Trolls. They just get bigger and more numerous.
Posts: 139
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Post by euchrejack on Jun 22, 2019 11:12:11 GMT -6
Just to clarify, 39 knots is possible, as is building a light cruiser that goes 39 knots. 39 is the game engine's maximum speed. It would be nice if there was a bit more of a cushion between the ceiling in the game engine, but I guess they had to stop somewhere.
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