corgi
New Member
Posts: 43
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Post by corgi on Jun 23, 2019 17:10:32 GMT -6
What do the settings 'light', 'medium', 'heavy', and 'maximum' for CAP mean in terms of number of planes? If I set maximum CAP on a group of carriers, does that mean CAP will use every fighter available on those carriers?
I start using fighters as attack planes in place of DB and TB when they have >1000 lb bombs, it would be good to know if I can set maximum CAP over a carrier force with 200 fighters and still have enough available to bomb things.
Also, how does it work when I set CAP over the main fleet but all carriers are in the separate carrier force? I sometimes see battles where there is no CAP over my main fleet despite having CAP set to heavy, is this why?
edit: and while I'm at it, will an airbase with (for example) 80 fighters and 40 medium bombers launch naval strike missions with fighters? I occasionally see land based fighters on naval strike but it's rare enough that I can't tell.
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Post by dorn on Jun 23, 2019 18:01:51 GMT -6
What do the settings 'light', 'medium', 'heavy', and 'maximum' for CAP mean in terms of number of planes? If I set maximum CAP on a group of carriers, does that mean CAP will use every fighter available on those carriers? I start using fighters as attack planes in place of DB and TB when they have >1000 lb bombs, it would be good to know if I can set maximum CAP over a carrier force with 200 fighters and still have enough available to bomb things. Also, how does it work when I set CAP over the main fleet but all carriers are in the separate carrier force? I sometimes see battles where there is no CAP over my main fleet despite having CAP set to heavy, is this why? edit: and while I'm at it, will an airbase with (for example) 80 fighters and 40 medium bombers launch naval strike missions with fighters? I occasionally see land based fighters on naval strike but it's rare enough that I can't tell. Fighters cannot dive bomb and it is quite a difference with accuracy between level and dive bombing.
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Post by mycophobia on Jun 23, 2019 18:41:20 GMT -6
They are different percentage of fighters being used for CAP. Maximum is not all your fighters, it means your carrier will make sure 50% of the fighter is at air at all times if possible. (This is because CAP need to be constantly refueled and rearmed if necessary, so putting all fighter to air at once will imply that when they come down, there will be a gap in your CAP) In practice Max CAP means most of your fighters will either be in the air as CAP or being refueled, meaning you probably wont have many fighter available, if at all for bombing missions.
When the carrier is on "Support" order of another battlegroup, it will send half of its CAP to the squadron that it is supporting. I think this is a part of game that could use some tweak, but for now that's the only way to send CAP to another squadron AFIK.
Landbase given fighters will use them, and they fly their own CAP too. How they decide what to send? I have no clue lol.
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Post by dizzy on Jun 23, 2019 21:55:00 GMT -6
When the carrier is on "Support" order of another battlegroup, it will send half of its CAP to the squadron that it is supporting. I think this is a part of game that could use some tweak, but for now that's the only way to send CAP to another squadron AFIK. Landbase given fighters will use them, and they fly their own CAP too. How they decide what to send? I have no clue lol. The problem with this is that Fleet Texh Levels change to allow your carrier to operate in separate divisions without the ability to Support. That’s messed up.
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Post by thesovietonion on Jun 23, 2019 22:53:05 GMT -6
It's not messed up, just not ideal. You can always manually launch fighter groups on escort missions over friendly units if you expect air contacts.
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Post by williammiller on Jun 23, 2019 23:33:27 GMT -6
Fighters can use 'Glide bombing' profile for bombing attacks generally after very early game...it's not as accurate as dive bombing, but def more accurate then level bombing.
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Post by dizzy on Jun 23, 2019 23:45:09 GMT -6
It's not messed up, just not ideal. You can always manually launch fighter groups on escort missions over friendly units if you expect air contacts. No you can not. There's no function for providing manual CAP. I already made a thread about it.
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Post by tbr on Jun 24, 2019 1:10:33 GMT -6
We need a way to desgnate "support" carriers. The way the system works Iwould prefer my "support" carriers to carry 100% fighters and be better armored and gun-armed than the (further away from the enemy) "strike" carrers of the carrier force. Or should the "support" carrers be more expendable fast CVL's?
Yet another example where the ability to make specialised roles work for scenario generation would make the game so much richer...
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Post by wknehring on Jun 24, 2019 3:47:57 GMT -6
We need a way to desgnate "support" carriers. The way the system works Iwould prefer my "support" carriers to carry 100% fighters and be better armored and gun-armed than the (further away from the enemy) "strike" carrers of the carrier force. Or should the "support" carrers be more expendable fast CVL's? Yet another example where the ability to make specialised roles work for scenario generation would make the game so much richer... It would be easier, once you can build CV your CVL become such "support carriers" (like they normally were intended for). Or maybe let´s say slow CVL (24 knots and slower) are support carriers and fast CVL (25 and faster) are handled as "small carriers".
The problem I see with "fighter bombers"- you can´t properly develop 2 different versions of the same fighter and keep both. In the lategame I get some fighters with a bombload of 800 to 1000lbs (perfect against Transports, DDs and CLs- near misses normally deal some water penetration) as a further development (let´s say version B or C) that replaces the older type. You can´t use both.
And if you develop two different fighters (let´s say for the Germans Messerschmitt as fighter and Focke Wulf as fighter bomber), you can´t equip your squads with a specific type. If you want a fighter squad you can´t equip with the Messerschmitt and if you want a fighter bomber squad you can´t equip with the Focke Wulf. You have to deploy a few squads and hope that they will be equipped with the fitting type.
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Post by thesovietonion on Jun 24, 2019 11:24:40 GMT -6
It's not messed up, just not ideal. You can always manually launch fighter groups on escort missions over friendly units if you expect air contacts. No you can not. There's no function for providing manual CAP. I already made a thread about it. Select the number of fights you want. Make sure 'escort' is their mission profile. Ready strike. Click the location you desire. Launch strike once ready. Fighters fly to that point and engage any aircraft found. It is more like a fighter sweep than a CAP or escort mission, but it is possible and it is manual.
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Post by dizzy on Jun 24, 2019 11:30:49 GMT -6
No you can not. There's no function for providing manual CAP. I already made a thread about it. Select the number of fights you want. Make sure 'escort' is their mission profile. Ready strike. Click the location you desire. Launch strike once ready. Fighters fly to that point and engage any aircraft found. It is more like a fighter sweep than a CAP or escort mission, but it is possible and it is manual. Do not defend your statement that you can manually provide CAP using that method. It does not work except for the brief moment your ships traverse that part of the sea and then your fighters are doing nothing but twiddling their thumbs until they run low on fuel and finally come home. It's a ludicrous statement and misleading in the extreme to someone not familiar with flight operations. Just stop. Please.
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Post by cogsandspigots on Jun 24, 2019 16:25:09 GMT -6
Select the number of fights you want. Make sure 'escort' is their mission profile. Ready strike. Click the location you desire. Launch strike once ready. Fighters fly to that point and engage any aircraft found. It is more like a fighter sweep than a CAP or escort mission, but it is possible and it is manual. Do not defend your statement that you can manually provide CAP using that method. It does not work except for the brief moment your ships traverse that part of the sea and then your fighters are doing nothing but twiddling their thumbs until they run low on fuel and finally come home. It's a ludicrous statement and misleading in the extreme to someone not familiar with flight operations. Just stop. Please. Can you "Just stop. Please." with your entire elitist attitude?
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corgi
New Member
Posts: 43
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Post by corgi on Jun 24, 2019 16:54:05 GMT -6
We need a way to desgnate "support" carriers. The way the system works Iwould prefer my "support" carriers to carry 100% fighters and be better armored and gun-armed than the (further away from the enemy) "strike" carrers of the carrier force. Or should the "support" carrers be more expendable fast CVL's? Yet another example where the ability to make specialised roles work for scenario generation would make the game so much richer... It would be easier, once you can build CV your CVL become such "support carriers" (like they normally were intended for). Or maybe let´s say slow CVL (24 knots and slower) are support carriers and fast CVL (25 and faster) are handled as "small carriers".
The problem I see with "fighter bombers"- you can´t properly develop 2 different versions of the same fighter and keep both. In the lategame I get some fighters with a bombload of 800 to 1000lbs (perfect against Transports, DDs and CLs- near misses normally deal some water penetration) as a further development (let´s say version B or C) that replaces the older type. You can´t use both.
And if you develop two different fighters (let´s say for the Germans Messerschmitt as fighter and Focke Wulf as fighter bomber), you can´t equip your squads with a specific type. If you want a fighter squad you can´t equip with the Messerschmitt and if you want a fighter bomber squad you can´t equip with the Focke Wulf. You have to deploy a few squads and hope that they will be equipped with the fitting type.
I don't choose bomb load on fighters or anything, but by the late 1940s I usually see slightly heavier bombs than on DB regardless. In my experience, ordinary fighters glide bombing with 2000 lb bombs are about as good as dive bombers with 1400 lb bombs and they take fewer losses. In the game I'm playing now, it's 1950 and on 90 plane carriers I'm using 60 fighters and 15 each of DB and TB. Obviously fighters on CAP or escort use light load with no bombs, but when I send an attack it looks something like 15 escort fighters/30 fighters on naval strike with heavy loadout/30 assorted bombers.
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Post by rob06waves2018 on Jun 24, 2019 17:02:19 GMT -6
Select the number of fights you want. Make sure 'escort' is their mission profile. Ready strike. Click the location you desire. Launch strike once ready. Fighters fly to that point and engage any aircraft found. It is more like a fighter sweep than a CAP or escort mission, but it is possible and it is manual. Do not defend your statement that you can manually provide CAP using that method. It does not work except for the brief moment your ships traverse that part of the sea and then your fighters are doing nothing but twiddling their thumbs until they run low on fuel and finally come home. It's a ludicrous statement and misleading in the extreme to someone not familiar with flight operations. Just stop. Please. Come, now. Don't you think you're being just a tiny bit unfair? He answered the question to the best of his knowledge. It may be 'misleading' to some questions and sensible to others. Even if it is complete nonsense (which it isn't), a gentle factual correction is all that is necessary. This is a new game which hasn't been fully completed and tested yet so we're all muddling about trying to help each other. I commented recently in the AV thread and was totally wrong. Someone corrected me and we moved on. No good ever comes from bashing someone over the head for putting their head above the parapet and trying. Use the misunderstanding as a springboard to suggest improvements to the system and added clarification from the devs rather than pouncing like a tiger on everything. (not a lecture, just my humble point of view)
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Post by rob06waves2018 on Jun 24, 2019 17:08:14 GMT -6
It would be easier, once you can build CV your CVL become such "support carriers" (like they normally were intended for). Or maybe let´s say slow CVL (24 knots and slower) are support carriers and fast CVL (25 and faster) are handled as "small carriers".
The problem I see with "fighter bombers"- you can´t properly develop 2 different versions of the same fighter and keep both. In the lategame I get some fighters with a bombload of 800 to 1000lbs (perfect against Transports, DDs and CLs- near misses normally deal some water penetration) as a further development (let´s say version B or C) that replaces the older type. You can´t use both.
And if you develop two different fighters (let´s say for the Germans Messerschmitt as fighter and Focke Wulf as fighter bomber), you can´t equip your squads with a specific type. If you want a fighter squad you can´t equip with the Messerschmitt and if you want a fighter bomber squad you can´t equip with the Focke Wulf. You have to deploy a few squads and hope that they will be equipped with the fitting type.
I don't choose bomb load on fighters or anything, but by the late 1940s I usually see slightly heavier bombs than on DB regardless. In my experience, ordinary fighters glide bombing with 2000 lb bombs are about as good as dive bombers with 1400 lb bombs and they take fewer losses. In the game I'm playing now, it's 1950 and on 90 plane carriers I'm using 60 fighters and 15 each of DB and TB. Obviously fighters on CAP or escort use light load with no bombs, but when I send an attack it looks something like 15 escort fighters/30 fighters on naval strike with heavy loadout/30 assorted bombers. I'm with you. I actually prefer fighter-bombers to dive bombers. They are generally faster, can carry a heavier bomb {which becomes a bombentorpedo) and don't drop like flies. They also can overcome CAP which most dive bombers can't. After about 1945, I drop the dive bombers for massed fighter and torpedo bomber squadrons. A direct hit from a dive bomber is not worth losing the plane quite a lot of the time.
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