Post by sloanjh on Jul 10, 2019 18:37:17 GMT -6
Short version: AI invaded me (not in first turn of war) in a zone where I had 14-18 points of AF ships, and they had 12-22ish points. This seems to completely violate the requirement of "a substantial force with 4:1 superiority in the area" from the Invasions section of the RTW1 changelog in the manual.
Other issues:
0) My invasions seem to need much more than 20-ish points to spawn
1) TP doesn't seem to count when calculating invasion strength - it would be nice if the mouse-over number reflected that.
2) It's very frustrated when an intended escort CL spawns without its CV (or vice-versa), especially when it's right next to major land-based air.
Long version: I'm France, at war for 11 months with USA, GB entered war a couple of months ago (so this was NOT the 1st turn of their entry), it's 1949.
I had 2 CLAA + 1 CV in the Caribbean, but one of them *might* have been damaged so it might have been 1CL + 1 CV. All of them are AF; no TP (which seems not to count for invasion prevention as of 1.0.5b). An invasion of cuba (which I own) triggered. Only 1 CL spawned for the battle (no CV) - it was fighting a 7", 2.5 in armor CA (i.e. really closer to a CL) plus several DD (maybe 4-ish). I managed to beat off the CA (but didn't sink it), then my CL was sunk by aircraft before I was able to kill enough of the transports to prevent the invasion. I came out of the battle and it announced enemy tanks landing in cuba. Looking at the after battle strength in the Caribbean, I have 1CL + 1CV = 18 points (which was 22 before the other CL got sunk assuming both were active, which I'm pretty sure they were). GB strength shows up as 2 CA = 12 (control key kills the popup, so I couldn't get it in a screen shot).
Attachment Deleted
4x22 (the advertised invasion threshold multiplier being 4x) = 88 which is a LOT bigger than 12. Even if I assume one CL was damaged (again, I'm pretty sure it wasn't), and there are a few DD present for GB that aren't being shown, and that their CA was damaged enough not to show up, we're still looking at 4x18>22 (3CA + 4DD). I don't see how this squares with the 4:1 requirement. The only thing I can think of is that maybe air power counts too - it's possible/likely they have a LOT more planes on land bases than I do.
I also suspect that an invasion shouldn't trigger at all after a turn or two with only ~20 points in the area. I've been trying to invade Egypt all game, with 40-80 SP in the area and zero-ish enemy, and have never had it trigger before the end of the war (probably 15-20 turns total). I keep getting "unable to establish superiority" or "waiting for weather". I have been invaded in 2 zones in two turns by GB, and in both cases there were only a handful of non-capital ships in the area (in fact in the other one, I had a BB vs a few DD so it seems like the same situation [EDIT this with the BB was actually US in SE Asia a few turns back]). I don't believe that the AI is intentionally playing by different rules, but that's hard to square with my observational data. Again, the behavior I see would make a LOT more sense if you're including land-based air power in the strength calculations (which has the potential to make a lot of sense, especially if it's only counted for bases within air range of the invasion target - this would actually be REALLY strong motivator for players to develop medium bombers).
While I'm here, I might as well mention a couple of other things:
1) I'm 99% sure that, as of 1.0.5, "TP" ships do NOT count towards invasion strength calculations, even though they do appear in the strength number in the popup. The reason for this is that I downloaded a patch a few weeks back (I think it was 1.0.5b) and all of the sudden the AI began invading zones were I was "safe". These were all zones where the defending ships were in TP status (I basically set everything not in home waters to TP); once I set them to AF the behavior stopped (until now). I'm not sure if TP ships count towards blockade status - I've seen some weird results that indicate they might. If I'm correct, it would be REALLY nice if the strength numbers in the mouse-over would not include the strength of TP ships (in the same way "R" is excluded now), or if there were a selector somewhere to define which strength you want (i.e. that would include R strength as well).
2) This isn't technically a bug, the CLAA were intended as escorts for the CV. It was very frustrating to have a CL without air support spawn in front of a british base and get wiped out by land-based air. It would be REALLY nice if there were an "escort" status (like AF) that acted as AF but prevented spawning away from major combatants (or at least reduced the chance).
Thanks!!
John
Other issues:
0) My invasions seem to need much more than 20-ish points to spawn
1) TP doesn't seem to count when calculating invasion strength - it would be nice if the mouse-over number reflected that.
2) It's very frustrated when an intended escort CL spawns without its CV (or vice-versa), especially when it's right next to major land-based air.
Long version: I'm France, at war for 11 months with USA, GB entered war a couple of months ago (so this was NOT the 1st turn of their entry), it's 1949.
I had 2 CLAA + 1 CV in the Caribbean, but one of them *might* have been damaged so it might have been 1CL + 1 CV. All of them are AF; no TP (which seems not to count for invasion prevention as of 1.0.5b). An invasion of cuba (which I own) triggered. Only 1 CL spawned for the battle (no CV) - it was fighting a 7", 2.5 in armor CA (i.e. really closer to a CL) plus several DD (maybe 4-ish). I managed to beat off the CA (but didn't sink it), then my CL was sunk by aircraft before I was able to kill enough of the transports to prevent the invasion. I came out of the battle and it announced enemy tanks landing in cuba. Looking at the after battle strength in the Caribbean, I have 1CL + 1CV = 18 points (which was 22 before the other CL got sunk assuming both were active, which I'm pretty sure they were). GB strength shows up as 2 CA = 12 (control key kills the popup, so I couldn't get it in a screen shot).
Attachment Deleted
4x22 (the advertised invasion threshold multiplier being 4x) = 88 which is a LOT bigger than 12. Even if I assume one CL was damaged (again, I'm pretty sure it wasn't), and there are a few DD present for GB that aren't being shown, and that their CA was damaged enough not to show up, we're still looking at 4x18>22 (3CA + 4DD). I don't see how this squares with the 4:1 requirement. The only thing I can think of is that maybe air power counts too - it's possible/likely they have a LOT more planes on land bases than I do.
I also suspect that an invasion shouldn't trigger at all after a turn or two with only ~20 points in the area. I've been trying to invade Egypt all game, with 40-80 SP in the area and zero-ish enemy, and have never had it trigger before the end of the war (probably 15-20 turns total). I keep getting "unable to establish superiority" or "waiting for weather". I have been invaded in 2 zones in two turns by GB, and in both cases there were only a handful of non-capital ships in the area (in fact in the other one, I had a BB vs a few DD so it seems like the same situation [EDIT this with the BB was actually US in SE Asia a few turns back]). I don't believe that the AI is intentionally playing by different rules, but that's hard to square with my observational data. Again, the behavior I see would make a LOT more sense if you're including land-based air power in the strength calculations (which has the potential to make a lot of sense, especially if it's only counted for bases within air range of the invasion target - this would actually be REALLY strong motivator for players to develop medium bombers).
While I'm here, I might as well mention a couple of other things:
1) I'm 99% sure that, as of 1.0.5, "TP" ships do NOT count towards invasion strength calculations, even though they do appear in the strength number in the popup. The reason for this is that I downloaded a patch a few weeks back (I think it was 1.0.5b) and all of the sudden the AI began invading zones were I was "safe". These were all zones where the defending ships were in TP status (I basically set everything not in home waters to TP); once I set them to AF the behavior stopped (until now). I'm not sure if TP ships count towards blockade status - I've seen some weird results that indicate they might. If I'm correct, it would be REALLY nice if the strength numbers in the mouse-over would not include the strength of TP ships (in the same way "R" is excluded now), or if there were a selector somewhere to define which strength you want (i.e. that would include R strength as well).
2) This isn't technically a bug, the CLAA were intended as escorts for the CV. It was very frustrating to have a CL without air support spawn in front of a british base and get wiped out by land-based air. It would be REALLY nice if there were an "escort" status (like AF) that acted as AF but prevented spawning away from major combatants (or at least reduced the chance).
Thanks!!
John
