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Post by boomboomf22 on Jun 12, 2016 19:27:35 GMT -6
My problem Is I try to be all them at once, and it leads to hideously expensive ships
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Post by gornik on Jun 19, 2016 13:13:37 GMT -6
Returning to game, I decided to utilise my old idea of all-med-gun CA - "Bury enemy ships under shower of shells!" Now it seems that this idea has great future...  (Note the number of 7-in guns!)  Three Olifant-class War Elephants became core of Russian Far East Squadron. War with Japan started in 1903. Now it is the end of 1904, and every star of Olimp at picture means at least one sunk Japanese cruiser. Also they sunk 12-in battleship Fuji, though not without help from their smaller Nazaret-class sister:  all-7 in-guns concept works so good, that I think I should share these designs to AI to help it stop me  |
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Post by director on Jun 19, 2016 13:34:38 GMT -6
For my legacy fleet I used to build CAs armed with 4x10" and assorted 7" guns. But I've been trying out CAs armed with only 7" guns, like yours with twin turrets fore-and-aft but with single turrets along the sides instead of putting them in casemates. So far they have performed well.
In my Byzantium game I was able to stand off enemy battleships with my 10"-armed CAs. Haven't tried that with the all-7" gun version. They do make terrific light-cruiser-killers.
Just built a set of French late-game CAs. On an economical 12,000-toms I got 28-knot speed, 5.5" and 6" armor and a battery of 12x7" guns (4-triples) plus 16x4" (8-twin). They are working out well... one took 2 torps in a Japanese surprise attack and lived to fight again.
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Post by admiral on Jun 28, 2016 9:46:26 GMT -6
In my Byzantium game I was able to stand off enemy battleships with my 10"-armed CAs. Haven't tried that with the all-7" gun version. They do make terrific light-cruiser-killers. Were those pre-dreadnaughts? Obviously, you must not be referring to 10x15-inch BBs. |
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Post by director on Jun 28, 2016 15:56:56 GMT -6
I'm referring to the weak B's that Spain deploys from the beginning. My two CAs fought (I think I remember) 4 Spanish B's.
From the AAR:
The attractions of a waiting strategy faded before the sufferings of the hungering – and increasingly bloody-minded – populace. With their future dividing into twin roads to ruin and revolution, Spain’s naval leadership determined to try again the nearly-successful raiding strategy of Almirante de Rojas, this time in the waters between Greece and Crete. Their operational secrecy was maintained; coaling off Bizerte was done without incident. The first knowledge the Byzantines had of the presence of the Spanish fleet was when freighters began to burn off the coast of Crete. The only Imperial naval presence in the area was a force of two armored and two light cruisers. They promptly set out west from Heraklion, expecting to find Spanish cruisers. Waiting for them instead was the Spanish battle-line. With better knowledge of the weaknesses of Spanish battleships than in the first war, Rear-Admiral Andreas Tsoukas determined to bluff – and bluff hard. Boldly standing in as though all the Imperial Navy was behind him, Tsoukas put the 10” guns of his Hellas and Boukellarion to good use. Using the advantage of speed to hold the range open, the Imperial cruisers pounded the Spanish with rapid, accurate gunnery. Flagship Numancia took twenty-six 10” hits; the Spanish landed only two 9” shells on Hellas and three on Boukellarion. Most of those did no serious harm but one of the Spanish 9” shells exploded on Hellas’s bridge, killing both her captain and admiral. Disorganized, the Imperial cruisers retreated into the twilight while the Spanish, blooded and disheartened, were content to let them go.
“If we cannot achieve a favorable decision with a force of five capital ships to two,” a Madrid newspaper blazed, not knowing the two Imperials had been armored cruisers and not battleships, “then how is it to be achieved?” The Armada Espanola seemed to have no answer; worse, it seemed to have no plan of how to find one. In the Empire, “Tsoukas’ Bluff” was much celebrated and, by Imperial order, the closed coffin containing his remains was permitted to lie in state in the Hagia Sophia for three days.
Boukellarion, ’The Old War-Horse’, off Alexandria in 1910.
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Post by plattfuss on Jul 5, 2016 2:12:31 GMT -6
Choosing Austria-Hungary empty pockets were my common experience. Pondering a lot about that I choosed to start without any light cruisers at all - believing them to be only fodder for our enemies bolstering their victory points and straining Austria´s limited ressources. Hence I decided to start with rather big AC´s as work horses (as nearly everybody does...): The Radetzky-class - workhorse of the austrian navy...  Austria´s battleships had to be as small and cheap as possible, hence more than three turrets were out of the question. But choosing triples and a superimposed midships turret (instead of a superimposed aft turret) resulted in pretty lightweight ships: the Adria-class was born. Investing all the spared weight into armour those ships proved to be pretty sturdy and could nonetheless deliver quite a punch with their three triplets....  Pretty soon I realized that even a fleet of improved Adrias was not affordable - hence a kind of Graf-Spee-design seemed to be the solution. Nasty, pretty hard nuts to crack they were....the Kärnten-class pocket-battleships:  Plattfuss |
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Post by admiral on Jul 6, 2016 20:50:45 GMT -6
I presume "best" doesn't take cost into account... Anyways, I present my Bogatyr4 class armored cruiser, the most ridiculously, gloriously overgunned ship in the entirety of naval history.  That's a lot of guns, folks. |
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Post by oldpop2000 on Jul 6, 2016 21:35:06 GMT -6
I presume "best" doesn't take cost into account... Anyways, I present my Bogatyr4 class armored cruiser, the most ridiculously, gloriously overgunned ship in the entirety of naval history. That's a lot of guns, folks. Well, it is nice but it is a pipsqueak compared to this particular ship in the Springstyles Book #3 - shipscribe.com/styles/S-584/images/s-file/s584108c.htm - Click on the image on the right to see the drawing as submitted. twenty-four 16-inch guns, electric drive machinery, and a speed of 26.5 knots in a ship 975 feet long on the waterline, 108 feet in beam, and with a normal displacement of 70,000 tons. |
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Post by admiral on Jul 6, 2016 23:06:16 GMT -6
I presume "best" doesn't take cost into account... Anyways, I present my Bogatyr4 class armored cruiser, the most ridiculously, gloriously overgunned ship in the entirety of naval history. That's a lot of guns, folks. Well, it is nice but it is a pipsqueak compared to this particular ship in the Springstyles Book #3 - shipscribe.com/styles/S-584/images/s-file/s584108c.htm - Click on the image on the right to see the drawing as submitted. twenty-four 16-inch guns, electric drive machinery, and a speed of 26.5 knots in a ship 975 feet long on the waterline, 108 feet in beam, and with a normal displacement of 70,000 tons. That ship is crazy: six sextuple turrets! In any case, tomorrow I'm going to submit a design with as many guns as possible. My goal is to make it over 100 guns. |
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Post by oldpop2000 on Jul 7, 2016 7:43:02 GMT -6
Well, it is nice but it is a pipsqueak compared to this particular ship in the Springstyles Book #3 - shipscribe.com/styles/S-584/images/s-file/s584108c.htm - Click on the image on the right to see the drawing as submitted. twenty-four 16-inch guns, electric drive machinery, and a speed of 26.5 knots in a ship 975 feet long on the waterline, 108 feet in beam, and with a normal displacement of 70,000 tons. That ship is crazy: six sextuple turrets! In any case, tomorrow I'm going to submit a design with as many guns as possible. My goal is to make it over 100 guns. I've always wondered what the reaction of the General Board of the US Navy was, to the submission of this design by the Bureau of Engineering. I mean after they stopped laughing. |
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Post by tbr on Jul 7, 2016 8:26:31 GMT -6
Still...
Sextuple turrets!
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Post by oldpop2000 on Jul 7, 2016 8:34:33 GMT -6
Still... Sextuple turrets! It is obvious, that no one had tested such an arrangement or they would have reduced it to quad turrets. But, it was submitted to the General Board. |
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Post by director on Jul 9, 2016 15:32:30 GMT -6
As I recall, Senator Tillman never seriously intended for his proposals to actually be built. He was annoyed with the Navy for coming in every year asking for more money, and then spending more (and making bigger ships) than they said they would. So as a way of parodying the whole dreadnought race he asked them to just go straight to the limit - to build the biggest thing possible. The Navy's response was, um, unenthusiastic, but they replied that the theoretical limit for a useful ship was the dimensions of the Panama Canal. As instructed, they then drew up a series of 'maximum battleships' and presented them to Senator Tillman.
These designs (there were at least five variations) were then carefully ignored and the Navy went back to building 'standard' battleships. My favorite is the design mounting 15x18" guns in five triple turrets. One wonders what the British and Japanese response would have been... something of a strangled squawk, I suspect, followed by a sound like a cat hacking up a hairball.
They'd probably not have been successful ships - too big a jump in size of ship, weapons, propulsion and all the rest, I think. But my - oh my - they would have been impressive.
tacrn1.deviantart.com/art/The-1-000-foot-battleship-287333955 |
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Post by joebob73 on Jul 9, 2016 16:15:09 GMT -6
 The Europa-class cruiser. Launched in 1899, HMS Europa immediately became the most powerfully-armed ship afloat, and had the biggest engineering plant ever put to sea. With a 13" main battery and 7" secondaries, she was better-armed than any other nation's battleships, and rivaled Britain's largest as well. Her 22-knot speed made her almost as fast as contemporary light cruisers, which allowed the class to easily disengage if outmatched. She participated in every major fleet action; the class acting as battlecruisers later would. Armed like a battleship, but with enough speed to run down any other cruiser, the class was instrumental in turning the tide of several early fleet engagements. In a short war with Russia, in 1904, they even destroyed a small battleship division attempting to intercept them while they were away from the main fleet. However, by 1910 they were showing their age. Advancements in propulsion technology rendered their previously world-beating speed third-rate, and improvements in armor-piercing shells meant they could no longer stand in the Line of Battle if necessary. Due to this issue, designs for a massive rebuild were drawn up, and in 1913, the first of the 5 ships of the class was drydocked for a year-long reconstruction. The entire powerplant was replaced by improved boilers and steam turbines rather than reciprocating engines, resulting in a near doubling of output and a speed increase to 27 knots. The obsolete guns were replaced as well, and the 7" secondary battery was replaced with lighter but faster-firing 6" guns.  The newly rebuilt ships went on to serve with distinction, all remaining first-line combatants until 1950, albeit not in their original role as proto-"fast battleships". Several more refits were conducted, although none as radical as the first. Attachments:
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Post by director on Jul 9, 2016 16:17:25 GMT -6
Don't forget to take some of those stacks out when you switch to oil fuel (  ). |
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