|
Post by Airy W on Mar 4, 2017 21:50:52 GMT -6
Sounds like turtle in the beginning, then speed/attack power in the late game. Thanks for the thread idea, i'm gonna go make one now. Thanks! Well the great thing is that there are tons of different strategies to play around with. For instance it's possible in the beginning to rush ahead to slightly faster ships (Bs going 21 knots and CAs going 23 knots) which will give you more flexibility to pick your battles.
|
|
|
Post by diereichsfurher on Mar 4, 2017 22:11:41 GMT -6
Sounds like turtle in the beginning, then speed/attack power in the late game. Thanks for the thread idea, i'm gonna go make one now. Thanks! Well the great thing is that there are tons of different strategies to play around with. For instance it's possible in the beginning to rush ahead to slightly faster ships (Bs going 21 knots and CAs going 23 knots) which will give you more flexibility to pick your battles. Hmm, could be intresting to do a speedy battleship in the beginning, thanks!
|
|
|
Post by Airy W on Mar 4, 2017 23:33:46 GMT -6
Just dont go too far. Classic mistake.
|
|
|
Post by diereichsfurher on Mar 5, 2017 1:05:45 GMT -6
So, I made my first big BB design in 1910. I got pretty lucky with the tech so I could put 4 turrets with quality 0 guns on. Tell me if im doing anything wrong. Also, heres my DD design. I couldn't wait for the 2 tube tropedo turrets, so I amde this. I was honestly suprised with the amount of turrets I couls shove on this thing. Haven't used it in battle yet, but when I do, i'll tell you guys how it goes.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 2:52:14 GMT -6
if your 900t DD can take more centerline mounts, stuff it full first then add side mounts. centerline mount can shoot both sides so, better.
|
|
|
Post by brucesim2003 on Mar 5, 2017 4:54:24 GMT -6
So, I made my first big BB design in 1910. I got pretty lucky with the tech so I could put 4 turrets with quality 0 guns on. Tell me if im doing anything wrong. Also, heres my DD design. I couldn't wait for the 2 tube tropedo turrets, so I amde this. I was honestly suprised with the amount of turrets I couls shove on this thing. Haven't used it in battle yet, but when I do, i'll tell you guys how it goes. If you want your BB to have a longer service life, drop X turret (or make B and X turrets twins) and increase deck and turret top armour by an inch apiece. It you have any weight left, increase your speed by 2-3 knots. Assuming your 5" gun is at least a 0, you can get away with those for your secondary battery. They will kill DD's pretty handily at that stage of the game. Also, if you don't have the improved triple turret, you might want to either go with ABQXY twins, or even a plain 8 gun battery. The original triple turret can be quite capricious. Also, the ammo supply for the main battery is a bit low. Be aware that any ship built in 1910 is very likely to have a director refit quite quickly (if not during construction). These are, of course, just my opinions. Feel free to ignore.
|
|
|
Post by Airy W on Mar 5, 2017 9:05:03 GMT -6
So, I made my first big BB design in 1910. I got pretty lucky with the tech so I could put 4 turrets with quality 0 guns on. Tell me if im doing anything wrong. Also, heres my DD design. I couldn't wait for the 2 tube tropedo turrets, so I amde this. I was honestly suprised with the amount of turrets I couls shove on this thing. Haven't used it in battle yet, but when I do, i'll tell you guys how it goes. For a proper dreadnought you don't want those medium secondaries. That is unnecessary weight when you have lots of big guns on the centerline. Triple turrets have reliability and rate of fire problems in 1910 that wont really get resolved for another 10 years. If you went down to double turrets you would still have a metric butload of firepower and you would save a lot of weight that could go towards improving the armor. 18 knots is pretty slow. It shouldn't be too much extra weight to raise that to 19 or 20. While 6 inch guns are a decent chunk of weight, 3 inch guns with nothing more then an inch of armor (for splinter protection) weigh very little and will make you less likely to get torpedoed. 90 shells is the bare minimum. More shells never hurt. It's good that you left a little cushion of weight. That will mean you can install improved fire control. If you are extremely minmaxing you can fill that weight with some more ammo or small guns that you will later remove in the refit.
|
|
|
Post by director on Mar 5, 2017 14:31:07 GMT -6
The 'turtle in the beginning' is because of technical factors. (I apologize if you already know this - and I'll keep it short).
In 1900, ships used reciprocating (piston) engines. These have a top speed limited by how much vibration they produce (which is a lot). Those were fed by inefficient boilers burning coal, so you needed a lot of very big boilers, large coal bunkers and a lot of men to shovel coal. The ships were structurally heavy, using materials that had to be thick (and heavy) for strength.
The guns were (mostly) aimed by the Mark 1 eyeball, which limited 'accuracy' to perhaps three miles. They were slow-loading and usually had to wait to fire until the top of the ship's roll. Shells were prone to tumble in flight (meaning they could wobble off course quite a lot) and prone to break up without exploding. Sometimes the propellant cooked off and became unstable, which could destroy the ship.
All of this changed more quickly than the men in command. A senior lieutenant of an 18-knot battleship of 16,000 tons armed with four 12" guns and no fire control could have been a captain of a 28-knot battlecruiser weighing double the old battleship and carrying easily twice the punch - and capable of firing at targets at ten miles with some chance of hitting it. The shift from reciprocating to turbine power, coal to oil fuel, small to large battery and above all the huge increase in size, all helped create a situation where officers didn't understand their systems and couldn't have the experience to know how best to use them.
Ship designers were, if you will excuse the pun, in the same boat - they had a lot of new systems and tools but the pace of change and rate of construction were so rapid that a lot of 'great ideas' turned out not to be when tested in service.
So if you feel a little lost or confused, you are in the spirit of the times. Experiment, do what seems best, and let us know what you find out.
|
|
|
Post by diereichsfurher on Mar 5, 2017 15:30:38 GMT -6
Thanks for the responses everybody, i'll keep all these tips in mind. Sounds like I made the secondary guns too big, and the whole thing too slow. Also seems like I need tii account for more ammo, and leave space for upgardes in the future. Thanks you guys!
|
|
|
Post by fwskungen on Mar 6, 2017 8:28:46 GMT -6
So, I made my first big BB design in 1910. I got pretty lucky with the tech so I could put 4 turrets with quality 0 guns on. Tell me if im doing anything wrong. Also, heres my DD design. I couldn't wait for the 2 tube tropedo turrets, so I amde this. I was honestly suprised with the amount of turrets I couls shove on this thing. Haven't used it in battle yet, but when I do, i'll tell you guys how it goes. Hello lets have a look on your ship first good things: + 13 in guns can be used all game/usefulness will reduce later (+) Turret armor is OKish (id prefer more but there are limits on weight) + torpedo defence 1 is real nice for the first ship (tech is wonky) getting torpedo defense 1 is expensive 2 is cheap 3 is very expensive and 4 is cheaper so when you get it use 2 or 4 ) Negatives this is somewhat how i like to make ships but it have worked well for me - 7 in secondaries armor ( this is neither here nor there its to expensive for that it gives on each side you have 5 6 in guns very well defended id say your better of with more guns less protected you might lose a few but your get the use of them for most of the time - 6 in guns i find that having more smaller guns as secondaries is better but i don't go under 4 in guns as the 3 in don't have armor piercing usefulness - 18 Knots this is slow id prefer a few knots more this will make it hard to both run away or attack someone running from you so - using X superimposed turret vs using v superimposed the V is just cheaper in tonnage ( haves something with the natural build of the ships hull ( saves a 100+ Tonnes) - Ammo you need more ammo at least 110 i find that i aim for 125 and don't get there most of the time. * this is just a personal preference ting i have at least 1 torpedo turret on all ships this is to get the circle that states torpedo range (max range) this is useful as it lets one see when on cant be torpedoed (they hurt) that being said i'm a sucker for armor so id like to have more armor that you currently have this is the ships i just have built for my Germany rounds this time i'm currently playing at 30% research so the tech is real slow...
|
|
|
Post by diereichsfurher on Mar 6, 2017 17:21:57 GMT -6
So, I made my first big BB design in 1910. I got pretty lucky with the tech so I could put 4 turrets with quality 0 guns on. Tell me if im doing anything wrong. Also, heres my DD design. I couldn't wait for the 2 tube tropedo turrets, so I amde this. I was honestly suprised with the amount of turrets I couls shove on this thing. Haven't used it in battle yet, but when I do, i'll tell you guys how it goes. Hello lets have a look on your ship first good things: + 13 in guns can be used all game/usefulness will reduce later (+) Turret armor is OKish (id prefer more but there are limits on weight) + torpedo defence 1 is real nice for the first ship (tech is wonky) getting torpedo defense 1 is expensive 2 is cheap 3 is very expensive and 4 is cheaper so when you get it use 2 or 4 ) Negatives this is somewhat how i like to make ships but it have worked well for me - 7 in secondaries armor ( this is neither here nor there its to expensive for that it gives on each side you have 5 6 in guns very well defended id say your better of with more guns less protected you might lose a few but your get the use of them for most of the time - 6 in guns i find that having more smaller guns as secondaries is better but i don't go under 4 in guns as the 3 in don't have armor piercing usefulness - 18 Knots this is slow id prefer a few knots more this will make it hard to both run away or attack someone running from you so - using X superimposed turret vs using v superimposed the V is just cheaper in tonnage ( haves something with the natural build of the ships hull ( saves a 100+ Tonnes) - Ammo you need more ammo at least 110 i find that i aim for 125 and don't get there most of the time. * this is just a personal preference ting i have at least 1 torpedo turret on all ships this is to get the circle that states torpedo range (max range) this is useful as it lets one see when on cant be torpedoed (they hurt) that being said i'm a sucker for armor so id like to have more armor that you currently have this is the ships i just have built for my Germany rounds this time i'm currently playing at 30% research so the tech is real slow... Thanks for the help, i'll definitely lower my secondaries next time, seems like a common tip and should save me some weight. Also thanks for the armor tips, I always just kinda guess for half the stats so this'll really help me out. Thanks!
|
|
|
Post by Airy W on Mar 6, 2017 18:59:37 GMT -6
Thanks for the help, i'll definitely lower my secondaries next time, seems like a common tip and should save me some weight. Also thanks for the armor tips, I always just kinda guess for half the stats so this'll really help me out. Thanks! But remember you do need them for pre-dreadnoughts. When you dont have fire control secondaries are very important because they have a higher rate of fire and there are more of them and those make up for the inaccuracy.
|
|
|
Post by oaktree on Mar 11, 2017 23:25:20 GMT -6
And some of the testing grounds for your designs are a bit harsher than others. I took down a lot of notes from this 1948 battle between the Japanese and my US fleet. Just seeing how well some end-game designs held up, and also seeing whether I put on cost effective amounts of armor by looking at the detailed hit logs. Plus the obvious realization that once the ranges are under 16,000 yards due to visibility and maneuvering the late-game fights between the big ships are glass cannon duels where you live on luck, gunnery training, and your limited abilities to keep your forces organized and fighting as groups. Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by director on Mar 12, 2017 13:44:04 GMT -6
Yeesh. That looks like a Plan Orange nightmare. Still, the US can replace its losses more easily than Japan - it will just take soooooo long to rebuild those dreadnoughts.
|
|
|
Post by oaktree on Mar 13, 2017 17:24:51 GMT -6
Yeesh. That looks like a Plan Orange nightmare. Still, the US can replace its losses more easily than Japan - it will just take soooooo long to rebuild those dreadnoughts. It was a 1948 battle - so I had stopped building cap ships a few turns previously and just added a few last minute DDs and CLs. There were 15 BB/BC per side with the USA having 10 BB and 5 BC vs Japan with 8 BC and 7 BB. It opened with a point blank range night action between the two Scout Forces. Three USA CLs were crippled, along with a USA BC taking two torpedoes and some gun damage. The most immediate effect on the Japanese side was one of their BC exploding from a magazine penetration, plus what looked like some damage inflicted on some of their other ships. Dawn found the Japanese spread out, and the USA Scout Force trying to move north past them to protect their damaged ships. The USA Battle Line was formed up to the northwest of the Japanese and moving to engage. The northeast part of the Japanese formation included a crippled, if not already sinking BC, and another damaged BC, plus a sinking CL and sinking DD. The engagement from there got a bit vicious. Some Japanese BB pounded on the tail end of the USA Battle Line when it straggled, and also worked over the damaged BC of the Scout Force when they tried to intervene. Meanwhile, the front six ships of the USA BB force rampaged through the Japanese ships in general. All the whole time 5-6 USA CL were zigging in and out and pounding the Japanese DD forces. Final result was the USA losing 3 BB, 2 BC, 3 CL and a DD in exchange for the Japan losing 7 BB (all they had), 5 BC, 2 CL, and 10 DD. It pretty much broke Japan's chance to break the blockade that the USA was able to keep in place until the Japanese government collapsed. Hmm. No room to attach the BC-equivalent of the Florida-class. The USS Enterprise was the flagship of Scout Force and was eventually lost after I pushed her a little too hard trying to bail out some scattered battleships that were under pressure. No listed in the Data View: All the ships attached had Level 4 TPS and 4" turret top armor.
|
|