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Post by director on Feb 23, 2017 22:14:09 GMT -6
My battleship deck armor tends to max out at around 4.5" and turret tops at around 5" to 5.5". As the US I like a heavy gun battery (well, to be honest I just like a heavy gun battery LOL) and 12-14" or 12-16" (for the really big late-game ships) lets me deliver much more than I take.
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Post by oaktree on Feb 23, 2017 23:22:56 GMT -6
Figured I would give a shout-out to my workhorse BC ships in my medium fleet game as the Germans that is close to the end - a final war in 1942 against the UK/Japan alliance has just started. The Moltke-class goes back to late 1910s as my 2nd BC design close on the heels of a similar, but one-off, Von der Tann class. Both classes were armed with 9 14" guns in an AXY configuration due to superimposed B turret not being available. Due to tech differences Von der Tann only did 26 knots, while the Moltke-class can do 28 knots. (Von der Tann got an expensive machinery rebuild in 1932 that converted her to oil-firing and 28 knot speed to extend her service life.) Not so good for chasing stuff, but the arcs were good enough for broadsides and useful for turn-away maneuvers to avoid torpedoes or enemy fire. Von der Tann, Moltke, and Moltke's sister ship Goeben were the mainstay BC force for close to two decades - including a grueling war against the UK/France from 1928-1930 where an outnumbered German navy whittled down superior numbers of UK capital ships, especially BCs, while completely dominating the French Navy in other encounters. (Moltke and Goeben dismantled a 40,000 ton French BC while taking minimal damage in one encounter.) Moltke is held in an odd sort of awe within the High Seas Fleet. She is "lucky" in having survived 30+ years of combat, often against larger foes. She is "unlucky" in that she has rarely returned to base in pristine condition - often she comes home with one or more destroyed turrets and serious damage to other structures. In a 1938 battle against the French that sank the Von der Tann the Moltke limped into Helgoland doing 4 knots. She was listed as 100% damaged with all three turrets destroyed. So the Moltke is a ship where glory is earned for serving as part of her elite crew - but that honor comes at the risk of being on a ship that is constantly sailing in harm's way. The other image is Seydlitz. She is Moltke's big sister built in the 1930s to help give the German BC fleet some more punch. Happy with her so far in her warm-up encounters with the French in 1938. For comparison purposes the German BB line is a set of ~40,000 ton ships with 24-27 knot speeds split over three classes with four 17" armed ships and one 16" armed ship. More construction in the late 30's got stopped by a disarmament treaty that limited ships to 10,000 tons and 8" guns. Which locked things in with the British having single ship leads in BB and BC classes. (I discount two old 20,000ton German BB that are doing foreign possession service. Their 21 knot speed hinders the battle line, though they "killed" two British BB and one British BC in a 1930 battle.) Attachments:
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Post by cv10 on Feb 24, 2017 11:34:10 GMT -6
Oaktree: nice balance between displacement, armor , speed, and armament
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Post by cv10 on Feb 24, 2017 11:41:21 GMT -6
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Post by fwskungen on Feb 27, 2017 18:14:52 GMT -6
These cruisers were the pride and joy of the Spanish Navy, and during the Spanish-Italian War, they were responsible for sinking 8 Armored, and 9 Light cruisers. The one pictured here gave 20 years good service to King and Empire, and was kept in good repair by several engine refits, and the addition of directors. "El Bendito" as she was known to the Navy, had an unfortunate tendency to collect torpedo and run into enemy fleets during storms at night. Somehow she managed to always make it back to port. hey thats a interesting design for a AC i have used the 2 turret large caliber guns and then a bunch of lighter caliber gun but this looks interesting i'm going to give it a test...
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Post by diereichsfurher on Mar 3, 2017 21:59:22 GMT -6
Hey guys, I was wondering if a fast, torpedo only destroyer, would be a good idea. Basically it would be quick run and gun tactice on the big ships, while other ships like cruisers or battleships acting as a distracion. I was wanting your guys thoughts since I don't know the game very well. Anyway, tell me what you guys think.
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Post by cv10 on Mar 3, 2017 23:19:04 GMT -6
I'm not sure but I think that a DD needs at least one gun (according to design rules). However you could just slap a 2 In gun forward and be good to go. It could be effective, particularly at night and with torpedo training. I'd give it a try!
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Post by bcoopactual on Mar 4, 2017 7:30:52 GMT -6
Hey guys, I was wondering if a fast, torpedo only destroyer, would be a good idea. Basically it would be quick run and gun tactice on the big ships, while other ships like cruisers or battleships acting as a distracion. I was wanting your guys thoughts since I don't know the game very well. Anyway, tell me what you guys think. Welcome to the forum. It's certainly an interesting idea. One of the tricky things for making it work is when to build it. Early game torpedoes are notoriously difficult for the player to use effectively. Later on, torpedoes become much more viable and easier to deploy but the accuracy of the opposing ships' guns increases as well making it more dangerous to make torpedo runs. I'm no expert on torpedo warfare, maybe others can point out the sweet spot between when torpedoes have markedly better performance and before at least secondary Directors for sure but possible earlier. Don't be afraid to try it and let us know how it works out.
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Post by Airy W on Mar 4, 2017 13:09:15 GMT -6
My guess is destroyer torpedoes reach peak effectiveness with the introduction of double mounts (1912). That is a big jump in number of torpedoes and happens when torpedoes have enough range to shoot at any ship you can see on anything other then a clear sunny day. While torpedo protection II is invented (IMHO the ideal level), a lot of predreads and CAs built before it will still be around. It also happens when CL design kinda sucks, they don't have fire control and are still reliant on wing turrets. But a few years after that secondary directors get invented meaning that medium caliber guns are going to be more accurate at long ranges. Plus CLs get above water tubes, CLs get smoke and CLs can pack five medium guns onto their centerline. So CLs are suddenly a lot more useful and that means that destroyers are going to face a lot more danger.
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Post by diereichsfurher on Mar 4, 2017 13:38:22 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2017 13:46:26 GMT -6
i think it can be fun. just not all DDs. Use some with guns for defense and some as this torpedo only platform. especially late game when torps have 18k yard range i think it can do some good damage. gotta make sure to do "torpedo warfare" as enhanced training it'll make them more effective.
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Post by director on Mar 4, 2017 14:08:33 GMT -6
The 'classic' formula for capital ship armor was that it should match the caliber of the guns. However, that went overboard sometime before WW1 as armor quality continued to improve and designers began to prize speed over protection. Plus, RtW uses a single number for all armor types and qualities from 1900 to 1925, while as I said the quality actually changed very much. Take a good look at what the auto-designer gives you. Check reference sources for contemporary ships - the Wiki has class and specific ship listings including armor for almost every historical warship. And then - experiment and decide which of the Holy Trinity of guns, protection and speed you think is most important for that design. RtW gives you the ability to try out ideas so experiment away. Just tell us what you find.
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Post by bcoopactual on Mar 4, 2017 18:52:53 GMT -6
Thanks! I'm gonna try it once I figure out the game a bit more, i'll make sure to tell you guys how it goes! Also, I had another question. Whats the usual amount of armor you want for battleships? And is it better to get more armor or more guns/speed? (Sorry for all the questions, still a noob.) No problem. For me it depends on what the time period of the game is because early game armor has the advantage and late game guns and armor penetration have the advantage. I use the gun data button (see picture below) and look at enemy armaments using the almanac to figure out how much armor to put on. Early game I can put on enough to protect at any range and then some to anticipate AP tech advancement and during the late game I try to put on enough to protect at medium-long range and add enough deck armor to protect against plunging fire. Don't be reluctant to start your own "beginner's questions" thread if you have more questions. There are a couple already on the forum but if you can't find the answers to your questions quickly using the search function then like I said don't hesitate to start your own. That way we aren't hijacking this thread for too long.
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Post by diereichsfurher on Mar 4, 2017 20:37:30 GMT -6
The 'classic' formula for capital ship armor was that it should match the caliber of the guns. However, that went overboard sometime before WW1 as armor quality continued to improve and designers began to prize speed over protection. Plus, RtW uses a single number for all armor types and qualities from 1900 to 1925, while as I said the quality actually changed very much. Take a good look at what the auto-designer gives you. Check reference sources for contemporary ships - the Wiki has class and specific ship listings including armor for almost every historical warship. And then - experiment and decide which of the Holy Trinity of guns, protection and speed you think is most important for that design. RtW gives you the ability to try out ideas so experiment away. Just tell us what you find. Thanks for the tips, i'll definitely use that auto designer idea.
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Post by diereichsfurher on Mar 4, 2017 20:41:00 GMT -6
Thanks! I'm gonna try it once I figure out the game a bit more, i'll make sure to tell you guys how it goes! Also, I had another question. Whats the usual amount of armor you want for battleships? And is it better to get more armor or more guns/speed? (Sorry for all the questions, still a noob.) No problem. For me it depends on what the time period of the game is because early game armor has the advantage and late game guns and armor penetration have the advantage. I use the gun data button (see picture below) and look at enemy armaments using the almanac to figure out how much armor to put on. Early game I can put on enough to protect at any range and then some to anticipate AP tech advancement and during the late game I try to put on enough to protect at medium-long range and add enough deck armor to protect against plunging fire. Don't be reluctant to start your own "beginner's questions" thread if you have more questions. There are a couple already on the forum but if you can't find the answers to your questions quickly using the search function then like I said don't hesitate to start your own. That way we aren't hijacking this thread for too long. Sounds like turtle in the beginning, then speed/attack power in the late game. Thanks for the thread idea, i'm gonna go make one now. Thanks!
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