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Post by christian on Sept 19, 2019 11:33:33 GMT -6
so i found out you can edit rof in the gundata file in the data folder not so much as i thought though i found out that even setting the rof for the 8 inch gun to 150 from the standard 15 rof (not the actual rof achieved in game obviously it seems to be a representative number and not the actual number) as both pictures show i am unable to get higher rof even though it goes from deliberate fire (-25 rof) to straddle fire (+20 rof) while the adjusted rof is diffrent the final rof does not surpass 4 this applies to every single gun no gun will surpass a firerate of 4 round per minute (15 seconds between each shot) this applies to 5 inch as well as 8 inch 18 inch and 2 inch guns equally (which is stupid) also it is highly unrealistic and i suggest it gets changed because a 2 inch gun not being able to fire faster than 4 rounds per minute (X)DOUBTas show in this videowww.youtube.com/watch?v=ICifnf63lCsit was perfectly possible to MAINTAIN a very high rate of fire with something the size of a 76mm gun and as clearly shown that 76mm guns can fire much faster than once every 15 seconds (hell even the sherman 76 fired faster in a cramped small turret) if possible id like to move the maximum rate of fire cap up to 60 if it is possible for the game do keep in mind we can essentially have 12 barrels per side and if all fire 60 rounds per minute and a lot hit because of close range the game might just not be able to process it all it would depend on how much the engine could handle also a compression of hits would be needed so it says x target hit 10 times after it says x gun fires and this is what a fully operational death star fully operational British 6 inch auto loading mount looks like (some 76mm 90 rof footage earlier on also) www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-wMGdy5Ntg(2 pictures of 5 inch rof posted in a comment) (if this is a bug and not intended it can be moved into the bug report section im on the 1.08 version of the game)
"What you're saying is that once guns fire fast enough, they still are limited to no faster than 4 rounds per minute."
exactly and i want it changed from 4 rounds per minute to 30-60 so i can mod autocannons into the game Attachments:
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Post by christian on Sept 19, 2019 11:34:24 GMT -6
rof for 5 inch gun capped in gundata i set the reload (rof) to 190 rof for 8 inch gun above was set to 150 Attachments:
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Post by dizzy on Sept 19, 2019 12:00:52 GMT -6
Yeah, this needs to be in bug report. I thought smaller guns had a faster rate of fire... Edit, I looked at gundata and 19 and 20 inch guns are supposed to fire at half tghe rate of 9 inch guns. But what youre saying is no matter if Im using a 5 inch gun, or a 20 inch gun, they will fire at a rate of 4 per minute? Are not 18 inch guns supposed to fire at one round a minute?
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Post by christian on Sept 19, 2019 12:18:38 GMT -6
Yeah, this needs to be in bug report. I thought smaller guns had a faster rate of fire... Edit, I looked at gundata and 19 and 20 inch guns are supposed to fire at half tghe rate of 9 inch guns. But what youre saying is no matter if Im using a 5 inch gun, or a 20 inch gun, they will fire at a rate of 4 per minute? Are not 18 inch guns supposed to fire at one round a minute? im not saying that an 18 inch or 20 inch gun fires as fast as a 2 inch gun or 5 inch gun what im saying is that the maximum possible rate of fire for any gun in game is no more than 4 rounds per minute obviously the in game base reload is far lower and 20-16 inch guns can barely reach 1 rof but the problem is NO GUN despite how much you edit the gundata file will fire faster than 4 rof as shown in this pic I MANUALLY BOOSTED THE ROF OF CERTAIN GUNS TO SEE THEIR MAX ROF ALL GUNS DO NOT FIRE EQUALLY FAST IN BASE GAME WITHOUT EDITING FILES but if i boost all guns to have an insane reload stat (such as 190 or 150) they cannot fire faster than 4 rounds per minute in short im saying that even if you change the rof number to 150000000 it wont fire more than 4 shots per minute Attachments:
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Post by dizzy on Sept 19, 2019 12:39:56 GMT -6
Yeah, this needs to be in bug report. I thought smaller guns had a faster rate of fire... Edit, I looked at gundata and 19 and 20 inch guns are supposed to fire at half tghe rate of 9 inch guns. But what youre saying is no matter if Im using a 5 inch gun, or a 20 inch gun, they will fire at a rate of 4 per minute? Are not 18 inch guns supposed to fire at one round a minute? im not saying that an 18 inch or 20 inch gun fires as fast as a 2 inch gun or 5 inch gun what im saying is that the maximum possible rate of fire for any gun in game is no more than 4 rounds per minute obviously the in game base reload is far lower and 20-16 inch guns can barely reach 1 rof but the problem is NO GUN despite how much you edit the gundata file will fire faster than 4 rof as shown in this pic I MANUALLY BOOSTED THE ROF OF CERTAIN GUNS TO SEE THEIR MAX ROF ALL GUNS DO NOT FIRE EQUALLY FAST IN BASE GAME WITHOUT EDITING FILES but if i boost all guns to have an insane reload stat (such as 190 or 150) they cannot fire faster than 4 rounds per minute in short im saying that even if you change the rof number to 150000000 it wont fire more than 4 shots per minute Ok, so answer me this... What is the 'actual-in-game' default unmodded RoF for a 3, 4, 5, and 6 inch gun? And what are they with autoloaders? I'd like to know if the RoF of smaller guns is equal to that of the larger guns. |
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Post by christian on Sept 19, 2019 12:43:27 GMT -6
Ok, so answer me this... What is the 'actual-in-game' default unmodded RoF for a 3, 4, 5, and 6 inch gun? And what are they with autoloaders? I'd like to know if the RoF of smaller guns is equal to that of the larger guns. autoloaders add a modifer to the guns in game like crew training does like in the first picture i will post the base rate of fire numbers for each gun are as follows (second picture) the gundata file (the rof and shell weight and so on) can be found by going into rule the waves 2 folder then entering the data folder then searching gundata and opening the resulting file Attachments:
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Post by jishmael on Sept 19, 2019 12:49:11 GMT -6
Doesn't this, aside from realism and modding, make autoloaders bad?
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Post by christian on Sept 19, 2019 13:12:07 GMT -6
Doesn't this, aside from realism and modding, make autoloaders bad? it dosent really change the effect of autoloaders in any way but yes autoloaders are generally bad say for example you have 4 triple turrets you now have 2 options add autoloader (25% + weight but +10 firerate when not on straddling fire and +30 when on straddling fire) add another turret 25%+ weight but 1 extra turret with 3 barrels and more reliability adds 25% more firepower no matter what in short adding another turret gives a better rate of fire except when in straddling mode where it gives (presumably) 5% worse rate of fire than the autoloader the big advantage is that another turret means more redundancy and if 2 turrets are taken out on a 4 turret ship you lost 50% firepower if 2 turrets are taken out on a 5 turret ship you only lost 40% firepower in the long run having another turret instead of an autoloader is usually better simply due to the redundancy the only reason you would use autoloaders is if you have so many secondary main or tertiary guns that you get a rof penalty in that case reducing the gun number and putting on autoloaders is a worthwhile dicision BUT this is almost only the case for secondary aa guns and 6 turret cruisers (which arent that good to begin with due to + armor) |
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Post by dizzy on Sept 19, 2019 13:36:49 GMT -6
Alright, christian I'm not understanding this. So I can understand this, please explain this to me like this... Say I'm standing in front of a special battery of test guns in the game. We have a 3,4,5, and 6 inch gun before us ready to fire. What is the RoF of each of these guns in actual game time? My guess would be that the 3 inch gun would fire faster than the 6 inch gun. But I don't know the actual in game RoF. What you're saying is that once guns fire fast enough, they still are limited to no faster than 4 rounds per minute. So... how fast can all these guns shoot in game so I can see the comparison? |
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Post by christian on Sept 19, 2019 14:14:55 GMT -6
Alright, christian I'm not understanding this. So I can understand this, please explain this to me like this... Say I'm standing in front of a special battery of test guns in the game. We have a 3,4,5, and 6 inch gun before us ready to fire. What is the RoF of each of these guns in actual game time? My guess would be that the 3 inch gun would fire faster than the 6 inch gun. But I don't know the actual in game RoF. What you're saying is that once guns fire fast enough, they still are limited to no faster than 4 rounds per minute. So... how fast can all these guns shoot in game so I can see the comparison? since we dont have any actual numbers on rof on these guns its hard to say but judging by the gundata table the 2 inch gun fires just as fast as the 3 inch gun (both have 25 rof) the 4 inch gun fires 1/5th slower than the 3 and 2 inch gun the 5 inch gun fires 1/20th slower than the 4 inch gun and the 6 inch gun fires 1/19th slower than the 5 inch gun "What you're saying is that once guns fire fast enough, they still are limited to no faster than 4 rounds per minute."
EXACTLY
"So... how fast can all these guns shoot in game so I can see the comparison?"
we have no idea outside of this gun table because there is no rof option id love to have the basic rof in game but sadly i havent heard the devs say they will tell us anything about the rof values in general if you wanna see how fast a gun fires go do a naval exercise with a ship which has a gun which you want to know the rof of then get into the fight go into the info of the ship and click the details next to main gun rof and you can see the rof at that instance (it constantly changes as long as it isent trying to get higher than 4) c sw ROF mr 2 15 25 4 3 15 25 8 4 32 20 10 5 63 19 11 6 108 18 12 7 172 16 13 8 276 15 14 9 365 14 15 10 500 12 16 11 666 11 18 12 864 10 20 13 1200 09 21 14 1372 09 22 15 1688 08 24 16 2048 08 26 17 3000 08 30 18 3500 08 32 19 3800 07 33 20 4100 07 34 |
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Post by dizzy on Sept 19, 2019 14:51:08 GMT -6
christian Alright, so I still do not understand. I'm not seeing this as a bug. If guns 5 in and less fire faster than a 6 in gun, then where is the bug? I'd recognize this as a bug if a 6 in gun fired at a RoF of 4 and 4 would be the fastest a gun could fire, thus smaller calibre guns wouldn't fire any faster, but you can't tell me what the RoF of a 6 in vs a 3 in gun is. So...
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Post by entropyavatar on Sept 19, 2019 15:00:40 GMT -6
How long is a single simulation step in the game? If the simulation step represents 15 seconds, then 4 rounds per minute is a natural cap. They might not have bothered simulating a gun firing multiple times within one step.
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Post by christian on Sept 19, 2019 15:28:53 GMT -6
christian Alright, so I still do not understand. I'm not seeing this as a bug. If guns 5 in and less fire faster than a 6 in gun, then where is the bug? I'd recognize this as a bug if a 6 in gun fired at a RoF of 4 and 4 would be the fastest a gun could fire, thus smaller calibre guns wouldn't fire any faster, but you can't tell me what the RoF of a 6 in vs a 3 in gun is. So... yes i can i can show you rof of every single gun if i wished too but i dont have the time nor patience to go do it i have tested so far 5 cannons which i have put on 5 diffrent rates of fire 2 inch at 270 rof 5 inch at 190 rof 8 inch at 150 rof 13 inch at 130 rof 19 inch at 170 rof all of these guns achieved a firerate of 4 rounds per minute despite the fact i modded the smaller guns to have a faster firerate (270 rof on 2 inch vs 130 of the 13 inch) they both shot equally fast which was 4 rounds per minute "I'd recognize this as a bug if a 6 in gun fired at a RoF of 4 and 4 would be the fastest a gun could fire,"
first of all its not a bug report im making if it was it would go into that section the reason im posting here is because i want the maximum rate of fire floor to be raised from 4 rof to around 30-60 this means i will be able to modify the files so guns can achieve up to 60 rof currently no matter how much you mod guns you cannot get more than 4 rof i am not sure if its INTENDED that the limit should be 4 rof which is why i said it might go under bug report "but you can't tell me what the RoF of a 6 in vs a 3 in gun is. So..."
ive showed you twice do i need to show it again ??
6 inch gun has 18 rate of fire base game
3 inch has 25 rate of fire base game
this means that the 6 inch gun has 7/25ths worse firerate which is 18 rofif you want the actual rate of fire numbers and not some arbitrary numbers for rate of fire which translate into nothing but a representative number go ask the developers of the game to release that information
i tried to promote a rof thing for each gun so you could see its rate of fire when designing ships and i believe a suggestion was also made with it but there was no response so i take that as silence |
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Post by dizzy on Sept 19, 2019 15:55:00 GMT -6
christian Alright, so I still do not understand. I'm not seeing this as a bug. If guns 5 in and less fire faster than a 6 in gun, then where is the bug? I'd recognize this as a bug if a 6 in gun fired at a RoF of 4 and 4 would be the fastest a gun could fire, thus smaller calibre guns wouldn't fire any faster, but you can't tell me what the RoF of a 6 in vs a 3 in gun is. So...
ive showed you twice do i need to show it again ??
6 inch gun has 18 rate of fire base game
3 inch has 25 rate of fire base game
this means that the 6 inch gun has 7/25ths worse firerate which is 18 rofIm interested in the translation of 6 in and 3 in guns to how close to a 4 RoF they are. Currently, 18 and 25 tell me nothing about how fast their RoF is compared to a gun that is a 4 RoF. See what Im saying? |
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Post by christian on Sept 19, 2019 16:36:13 GMT -6
"but you can't tell me what the RoF of a 6 in vs a 3 in gun is. So..."
ive showed you twice do i need to show it again ??
6 inch gun has 18 rate of fire base game
3 inch has 25 rate of fire base game
this means that the 6 inch gun has 7/25ths worse firerate which is 18 rof Im interested in the translation of 6 in and 3 in guns to how close to a 4 RoF they are. Currently, 18 and 25 tell me nothing about how fast their RoF is compared to a gun that is a 4 RoF. See what Im saying? of course i do but i dont have the time to go test the guns for you besides it is diffrent for everyone depending on year and i dont have the patience nor time to go map all that out well i do just not now either way im busy trying to set up a proper test save which i can use to map bomb penetration which will probably take me an intire day but hey we get pen numbers for bombs and thus i dont have time to go map guns i wish the devs gave us actual rof numbers we can use but we gotta work with what we have atleast we have an excercise function now we can go spend time discovering how the game works again go into an excercise with a ship with the gun of your choice and fight another ship once engagement has started the rof should appear when you click details bottom left of the info screen of your ship |
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