Post by generalvikus on Feb 3, 2020 21:42:38 GMT -6
I have noted that it is very common for viable heavy guns to appear much sooner than they did historically, even with a relatively low level of effort being put into gun technology. For example, in my current British campaign, I've kept guns on medium priority the entire time so far. I unlocked -1 13 inch guns in 1901, -1 14 inch guns in 1902 and -1 15 inch guns in 1904. In my experience, this is perhaps better than average, but not atypical.
Since Britain in this period led the world in gun calibre, and since it's often noted that the 15 inch '45 was rushed into service by Churchill, it seems reasonable for me to assume that Britain's historical achievements ought to be roughly the best that can be achieved in game with gun tech prioritised, rather than far less than what is typically achievable with no particular emphasis placed on gun technology.
While heavier guns were certainly used on earlier pre-dreadnoughts, I don't think that these are comparable; the early 13 inch guns of the British are represented in game by a -2 quality weapon, whereas the lowest level available when all other weapons are researched for the first time is -1. Since these heavier weapons generally tend to be unlocked earlier than Q0 and much earlier than Q1 levels of lighter weapons, they tend to have superior penetration compared with contemporary lighter weapons as well as greater damage potential, for only a modest reduction in fire rate.
Arguments could still be made in favour of using the lighter weapons, if it were not for the limitation of the number of centreline turrets in the same period, which strongly encourages the use of fewer, heavier guns.
I don't know if there's any real reason why it would have been more likely for heavy guns to have been introduced earlier than they were in history as opposed to better fire control or more advanced armour, for example. Certainly I think it's a valid option for varied tech games, but I see no reason why it should be a possibility in normal games, especially when technologies which seem like they might have been much more likely to appear so much sooner (for example, those limitations which are based on design philosophy rather than technical advancement, like the dreadnought configuration itself) do not do so, as a rule.
In summary, I think that the present state of gun technology is historically unjustified, and that it considerably deranges the game balance. Perhaps no other design dilemma in the game is so one - sided as that of early game firepower.
I would like to see some time - based restrictions on gun calibres, based like other techs on their earliest historical introduction, according to the assumption that Q-1 guns in game generally represent the earliest implementation of such weapons in the dreadnought era, and not the experimental weapons of earlier eras which appear to have proven much less practical than Q-1 guns are in game. Alternatively or as well, we could have Q -2 implemented as the base level for all new calibres, so that newly unlocked calibres take some development time to become much more practical than existing ones. It was also mentioned in the thread I made to discuss this topic that the first generation of American pre-dreadnoughts used 13 inch guns, but the US has no access to any 13 inch weapons at the game's start; so re-consideration of starting gun calibres would also be nice, though by no means essential compared with the main issue.
Since Britain in this period led the world in gun calibre, and since it's often noted that the 15 inch '45 was rushed into service by Churchill, it seems reasonable for me to assume that Britain's historical achievements ought to be roughly the best that can be achieved in game with gun tech prioritised, rather than far less than what is typically achievable with no particular emphasis placed on gun technology.
While heavier guns were certainly used on earlier pre-dreadnoughts, I don't think that these are comparable; the early 13 inch guns of the British are represented in game by a -2 quality weapon, whereas the lowest level available when all other weapons are researched for the first time is -1. Since these heavier weapons generally tend to be unlocked earlier than Q0 and much earlier than Q1 levels of lighter weapons, they tend to have superior penetration compared with contemporary lighter weapons as well as greater damage potential, for only a modest reduction in fire rate.
Arguments could still be made in favour of using the lighter weapons, if it were not for the limitation of the number of centreline turrets in the same period, which strongly encourages the use of fewer, heavier guns.
I don't know if there's any real reason why it would have been more likely for heavy guns to have been introduced earlier than they were in history as opposed to better fire control or more advanced armour, for example. Certainly I think it's a valid option for varied tech games, but I see no reason why it should be a possibility in normal games, especially when technologies which seem like they might have been much more likely to appear so much sooner (for example, those limitations which are based on design philosophy rather than technical advancement, like the dreadnought configuration itself) do not do so, as a rule.
In summary, I think that the present state of gun technology is historically unjustified, and that it considerably deranges the game balance. Perhaps no other design dilemma in the game is so one - sided as that of early game firepower.
I would like to see some time - based restrictions on gun calibres, based like other techs on their earliest historical introduction, according to the assumption that Q-1 guns in game generally represent the earliest implementation of such weapons in the dreadnought era, and not the experimental weapons of earlier eras which appear to have proven much less practical than Q-1 guns are in game. Alternatively or as well, we could have Q -2 implemented as the base level for all new calibres, so that newly unlocked calibres take some development time to become much more practical than existing ones. It was also mentioned in the thread I made to discuss this topic that the first generation of American pre-dreadnoughts used 13 inch guns, but the US has no access to any 13 inch weapons at the game's start; so re-consideration of starting gun calibres would also be nice, though by no means essential compared with the main issue.