|
|
Post by dizzy on Feb 27, 2020 11:17:16 GMT -6
Add an optional Russian colony/port or two in the Black Sea so we can use it to give the Russians a Mediterranean presence.
|
|
gt
New Member
Posts: 5
|
Post by gt on Feb 27, 2020 12:39:17 GMT -6
Russian Black Sea ports are isolated from Mediterranean. Russian government tried to capture that straits for centuries, and in the early decades of the twentieth century too - to became Mediterranean naval power, but this is outside of RTW2 scope, unless Ottoman Empire will be in game. But Black Sea naval warfare is hard to simulate with RTW2 instruments, while it had major impact on WW1 and lesser, but significant impact on WW2.
|
|
|
|
Post by noshurviverse on Feb 27, 2020 12:53:17 GMT -6
Russian Black Sea ports are isolated from Mediterranean. Russian government tried to capture that straits for centuries, and in the early decades of the twentieth century too - to became Mediterranean naval power, but this is outside of RTW2 scope, unless Ottoman Empire will be in game. But Black Sea naval warfare is hard to simulate with RTW2 instruments, while it had major impact on WW1 and lesser, but significant impact on WW2. Given that they don't have any port facilities or events that reference them, as well as how some territories they historically had are owned by other nations, I've always assumed that RtW assumes that the Ottoman Empire collapsed early in this timeline. Nothing confirms this, but it's been my assumption. |
|
|
|
Post by dizzy on Feb 27, 2020 13:23:35 GMT -6
...but this is outside of RTW2 scope, unless Ottoman Empire will be in game. <snip> Turkey is already in the game. I have a mod with the Ottoman Empire in the game. |
|
|
|
Post by dizzy on Feb 27, 2020 13:25:17 GMT -6
Russian Black Sea ports are isolated from Mediterranean. Russian government tried to capture that straits for centuries, and in the early decades of the twentieth century too - to became Mediterranean naval power, but this is outside of RTW2 scope, unless Ottoman Empire will be in game. But Black Sea naval warfare is hard to simulate with RTW2 instruments, while it had major impact on WW1 and lesser, but significant impact on WW2. Given that they don't have any port facilities or events that reference them, as well as how some territories they historically had are owned by other nations, I've always assumed that RtW assumes that the Ottoman Empire collapsed early in this timeline. Nothing confirms this, but it's been my assumption. A large part of the Italian Empire was controlled by the Ottomans in 1900. The devs gave us an alternative history in the stock game. |
|
|
|
Post by aeson on Feb 27, 2020 13:45:33 GMT -6
Given that they don't have any port facilities or events that reference them, as well as how some territories they historically had are owned by other nations, I've always assumed that RtW assumes that the Ottoman Empire collapsed early in this timeline. Nothing confirms this, but it's been my assumption. Cyprus, Egypt, and Sudan were de facto British colonies from the 1880s; the only territories explicitly depicted in the game that are really problematic are Rhodes and Libya, which were Ottoman up until lost to Italy in the 1911-1912 Italo-Turkish War. |
|
|
|
Post by Fredrik W on Feb 27, 2020 14:54:49 GMT -6
Yes, you are right. Rhodes and Libya should be neutral at the start of the 1900 game.
|
|
|
|
Post by dizzy on Feb 27, 2020 18:35:04 GMT -6
Yes, you are right. Rhodes and Libya should be neutral at the start of the 1900 game. Uh oh! I think I just contributed to pissing off a buncha Italy players. That’s okay, tho! Because rumor has it that @fredrik is going to add a neutral invasion mechanic for us in the near future! Right, fredrik, good buddy, pal? ::nervous smile:: |
|
|
|
Post by rimbecano on Feb 27, 2020 21:05:44 GMT -6
Add an optional Russian colony/port or two in the Black Sea so we can use it to give the Russians a Mediterranean presence. I previously addressed a similar suggestion in the following thread: nws-online.proboards.com/post/57827/threadThe tl;dr is that the Bosphorus cuts right through the middle of Turkey's frickin' *capital* and, Ottoman empire or not, if anyone threatens the neutrality of the Turkish straights, Turkey will pander to that power's enemies as hard as they need to to guarantee the neutrality of the straights. About the only scenario in which I'd be OK with the Black Sea being a part of RTW is if there were a special event involving a power trying to force the straights that led to an immediate all-powers war, with the player being forced to choose a side to support (unless they were the troublemaker, in which case they would be given the choice whether to actually make the attempt or to not try / back down (--prestige?)). |
|
|
|
Post by oldpop2000 on Feb 27, 2020 21:08:07 GMT -6
Add an optional Russian colony/port or two in the Black Sea so we can use it to give the Russians a Mediterranean presence. Not unless their fleet could fly over the Bosporus and the Dardanelles. Now with an alliance with Turkey, that might be possible. This was a possibility. The Ottoman's were in decline and the Russian's were rising. The Russian's made the attempt to take Constantinople and had they done so, then they could have used Sevastopol as their main fleet based for the Black Sea Fleet and then passed through the straits to enter the Med. Would this have changed the geostrategic situation in the First World War? Quite possibly. |
|
|
|
Post by Antediluvian Monster on Feb 28, 2020 7:26:29 GMT -6
Add an optional Russian colony/port or two in the Black Sea so we can use it to give the Russians a Mediterranean presence. Not unless their fleet could fly over the Bosporus and the Dardanelles. Sounds like we have a simple solution then:  |
|
|
|
Post by oldpop2000 on Feb 28, 2020 8:18:35 GMT -6
Not unless their fleet could fly over the Bosporus and the Dardanelles. Sounds like we have a simple solution then: Pure Jules Verne, very nice, very nice. I think the sailors need to be tied down or they will fly around. Just kidding. |
|
|
|
Post by oldpop2000 on Feb 28, 2020 9:55:59 GMT -6
Just some facts that could make the possibility of passage through the Dardanelles and Bosporus possible. In 1878, there was the Russo-Turkish War. The Russian coalition won the war and the Turks lost most of Eastern Europe being pushed back to Constantinople. It gets very complex with atrocities by the Serbs etc. The Ottoman's after this war were in a state of conflict internally with the Young Turks uprising and overthrow of the Sultan. So, the Turks are going to be busy and possibly it might be easier and safer for them just let the Russian fleet pass through unrestricted to the Mediterranean. The Turks don' have much of a fleet, so without fortresses and mines, they are not going to be able to stop them. If they can't then the Russian Black Sea Fleet has access to the Med and could play a role in any war in that enclosed sea.
Of course, the reverse is true. The British, French, and Italians plus the A-H could decide during a war with Russia to sail through and attack Sevastopol with an invasion into the Ukraine and Crimea.
|
|
|
|
Post by dizzy on Feb 28, 2020 10:38:29 GMT -6
Not unless their fleet could fly over the Bosporus and the Dardanelles. Sounds like we have a simple solution then: That's such an awesome pic! Maybe Fredrik W should do his next game RTW3 about Steampunk or Jules Verne flying ships with anti-gravity generators! Call it Rule the Sky! RTS  community_image_1406323985.jpg (280.24 KB) |
|
|
|
Post by Antediluvian Monster on Feb 28, 2020 10:49:11 GMT -6
Sounds like we have a simple solution then: That's such an awesome pic! Maybe Fredrik W should do his next game RTW3 about Steampunk or Jules Verne flying ships with anti-gravity generators! Call it Rule the Sky! RTS View AttachmentIncidentally the one I posted is cover art for a miniature boardgame called Leviathans: Monsters in the Sky by Catalyst Game Labs (also known as caretaker of the Battletech miniature game IP). And no I never got around to playing it, but it seems they are coming back with WW1 themed content and more factions, with semi-regular boardgaming nights possible now, I might buy a box set once they come up with one. |
|
