What Differentiates a Battleship From a Battlecruiser?

[starkiller5393]

Hello Everyone, 

I am helping my friend design ships for his playthrough of Rule the waves 2. We are playing as Italy. it's the late 1930's (between 1936 and 1938, I think?  I can't remember exactly.) I am trying to build a Battlecruiser, as our current ones have designs that date to world war 1, or even earlier! (think Helgoland with four twin 13 inch guns and  two twin 14 inch guns, and the other one is based on the Regina Margherita, retrofitted with single 14 inch guns. They are quite old!) They have been ok for awhile, but the French AI is fielding battlecruisers with 15 inch guns in 4 twin turrets. Naturally, I want to compete for control of the Mediterranean sea. We are allied with Austria-Hungary and Germany. Neutral with America, Russia, Japan, and Britain. We are at war with France. 

So, with that out of the way, I really wanted to make a ship based on the Amagi class battlecruiser. However, the ship I built is classified as a battleship. What can I do to make it a Battlecruiser? 

Here are the specs:

Battlecruiser.
AraKoff class
(IJN Amagi)

Speed: 30 knots

Guns: 5 twin 16 inch guns (5x2)
         16 single 6 inch guns (16x1)
         8 twin 5 inch guns (DP) (4x2)
         54 2 inch guns (DP) (54x1)
        various other AA guns that the games decides to add in.

Armor: 14 inch belt
            4 inch deck
            3 inch conning tower
            3 inch bulkheads
            11 inch barbettes and turret face
            6 inch turret top
            3 inch secondary


She weighs between 41,217 to 47,000 tons. I suspect it is more closer to 47,000. Perhaps this is my main problem? That it's too heavy to be a BC according to the rules of the game?

That's the most I can think about off the top of my head. What do I need to change? Speed? armor? firepower? a mixture of both? I really like the Amagi class, but I don't need battleships. I need battlecruisers. then again, with the game in the later stages, will they be rendered obsolete with the advent of missiles and jets in the 1950's? I know carriers are probably the way of the future, but I like my big gun ships. it's why I agreed to help out my friend in the first place. 

Any help would be appreciated. 

[orkel]

"Must have main gun calibre larger than 10 inches and speed more than 23 knots, or three main gun turrets and speed more than 21 knots. In some borderline cases armour thickness can be the difference between a BC and a BB. Speed requirement rises with time, as fast battleships develop"

Try lowering your belt thickness to 12 inches. I've noticed more than that tends to turn into a BB.

[noshurviverse]

It is worth mentioning that any BB with a speed of 27kts or more is also considered a BC for battle generation purposes.

[starkiller5393]

Sept 4, 2020 0:15:50 GMT -6 orkel said:

"Must have main gun calibre larger than 10 inches and speed more than 23 knots, or three main gun turrets and speed more than 21 knots. In some borderline cases armour thickness can be the difference between a BC and a BB. Speed requirement rises with time, as fast battleships develop"

Try lowering your belt thickness to 12 inches. I've noticed more than that tends to turn into a BB.

I'll have to try it. thank you! :3 

[sjpc302]

You can also further raise the speed to above 30 knots, and keep the armor. There's no tonnage limits.

[aeson]

Increasing the speed to 31 knots should allow you to classify the ship as a battlecruiser while maintaining the 14" belt armor.

Also, are you referring to medium AA guns as 2" DP? Otherwise, you should probably mention what mod(s) you're using, because neither quaternary batteries nor 2" DP guns are possible in the unmodded game.

I would comment that 11" turret faces seem a bit light for 16" guns, and that I would much rather have a larger 5" DP battery than the entire 6" SP battery - especially on a ship being built in the late-'30s.

[starkiller5393]

Sept 4, 2020 8:57:12 GMT -6 aeson said:

Increasing the speed to 31 knots should allow you to classify the ship as a battlecruiser while maintaining the 14" belt armor.

Also, are you referring to medium AA guns as 2" DP? Otherwise, you should probably mention what mod(s) you're using, because neither quaternary batteries nor 2" DP guns are possible in the unmodded game.

I would comment that 11" turret faces seem a bit light for 16" guns, and that I would much rather have a larger 5" DP battery than the entire 6" SP battery - especially on a ship being built in the late-'30s.

I made the ship using specs from the Amagi class Battlecruiser. I suppose that she would have been adequately armored for the the 1920's, but by the 1930's, this is no longer adequate? I can try messing around  with the thicknesses. 

As for the anti air guns. I was being stupid. I forgot 25mm is one inch. Amagi would have had loads of little anti air guns, and a Varity of larger 5 inch guns. We normally put secondary guns in turrets, as it looks more visually appealing than casemates. this helps with dual purpose. I am not using any mods, as far as I know. I'll have to try increasing the speed to make it a BC. well see. I may have to reinstall WOWS to see what the armor specs were on the ship. 

Thank you for your advice. 

[kotori87]

Pretty sure in this case the armor thickness is making the difference in classification. I designed a number of big capital ships in the 28-30kt range with 8-9x 16" guns. Some had 12" belt, some had 14" belt. The heavier-armored ones were always classified as battleships, and the lighter-armored ones were always classified as battlecruisers, regardless of speed. Also, deck armor seemed to make no difference, it was purely belt armor thickness that decided the matter.

[DrunkSailor]

For this time period (after 1930) BC is either with up to 12" belt armor or 31kn speed and above

[wlbjork]

Depends on the nation really. For Britain, the criteria was:

A Battleship emphasises Armour, then Firepower, then Speed.

A Battlecruiser emphasises Speed, then Firepower, then Armour.

[Noname117]

I will say, in regards to the "a 27 knot BB is considered as a BC for ingame purposes" doesn't seem to be strictly true. In the carrier era in my Japan game I observed multiple instances of 27+ knot BBs not being put into battles where enemy BCs were present, while I didn't have any BCs and as such only got CAs. This seems to largely effect carrier engagements though, as these battles were happening in the 50s.

Obviously this doesn't matter as much for the 20s and 30s, but it does seem like BCs are needed in the age of carrier warfare.