[1.24] Surprise Attacks

[gildeddawn]

Surprise attacks defined in the MapData file do not seem to work. I have been playing a campaign as Japan (1900 start, Super Large fleet size, AI advantage, manual build of legacy fleet; game is also heavily modded, but I don't see how that could make a difference for this bug).

In my first war against France, I had a surprise attack against Kwang-Chou-Wan as normal, but for my second war against Britain, I have not been able to surprise attack at all. It is worth noting that Britain no longer controls Weihaiwei, having lost it to a rebellion. I had reason to believe there might be something wrong, following observations from exit/reload shenanigans I did in the lead up to the first war against France. When that war had started, I was offered to choose a possession for a surprise invasion. I made my choice, but then I didn't get a surprise attack battle...or a battle at all for the next 4 turns. I assumed this was a bug, so I reloaded the save and tried again. After several attempts, I concluded that the surprise invasion did not seem to be tied to the surprise attack, and neither seemed to be guaranteed to happen. I was not able to explain why I didn't get a battle at all (not even a popup that I declined) for 4 turns straight, but I wasn't able to replicate it either, so I shrugged and moved on. But, the experience left me suspicious of surprise attacks, and much more inclined to investigate any other irregularities related to them that might come up.

Thus, when I went to war with Britain and didn't get a surprise attack, I decided to copy the save elsewhere and then reload an earlier save and try again, just to make sure that it was possible. 

I am glad I did, because after numerous attempts, including trying different iterations involving varying countries and possessions, I have reached the conclusion that the game simply will not initiate a surprise attack using a surprise attack battle defined in the MapData file. It is restricted only to the surprise attack defined in the WarData file, and if the opposing country loses the possession to which that battle is attached, Weihaiwei in the case of Britain, then you can no longer get a surprise attack against that country. Needless to say, knowing this majorly affects how I would want to play as Japan, since I would want to make sure that each country never lost its surprise attack possession. I would have never supported the rebels in Weihaiwai, and I would have never taken Kwang-Chou-Wan as a prize following victory in the war against France. I assume that this works in reverse (i.e. if I was playing as Britain and lost Weihaiwei, then I couldn't get surprise attacked by the AI Japan), but I haven't tested that.

I've included a couple of savegame files in case it helps.

The first is a few turns before the war with Britain started,

Game2.7z (247.36 KB)

And the second is from the first turn after it started,

Game2.7z (268.2 KB)

Thanks for making such a great game.

[gildeddawn]

Data.7z (750.05 KB)

Flags.7z (42.82 KB)

[BathTubAdmiral]

Possibly related: [1.23] Error CheckSurpriseAttack Procedure

[dia]

Nov 20, 2020 2:05:14 GMT -6 gildeddawn said:

I am glad I did, because after numerous attempts, including trying different iterations involving varying countries and possessions, I have reached the conclusion that the game simply will not initiate a surprise attack using a surprise attack battle defined in the MapData file. It is restricted only to the surprise attack defined in the WarData file, and if the opposing country loses the possession to which that battle is attached, Weihaiwei in the case of Britain, then you can no longer get a surprise attack against that country.

That's odd because in the past I was trying to mod another nation to use the surprise attack feature, Italy against France, and came to the conclusion that it was the MapData file, not the WarInfo that governed all surprise attacks. Nothing I did could get the WarInfo file to trigger a surprise attack. Based on the MapData file and my experience playing Japan, I came to the conclusion that Singapore, Soerabaja, Manila, Saint Jaques, Cam Ranh Bay, Fort Bayard, Hong Kong, Haikou, Vladivostok, Weihaiwei, Tsingtau, Port Arthur, Chenampo, and Pearl Harbor are the only ports capable of being surprise attacked. These are individual missions defined in in the MapData file and listed by port name not the province they belong to. According to the WarInfo file, The Philippines, Kiautschou Bay, Weihaiwei, Kwang-Chou-Wan, and the Liaotung Peninsula are the only provinces with defined surprise attacks, however I know for a fact these aren't the only ones as I've surprised attacked Singapore before. So if your enemy doesn't hold one of these ports, you're SoL and modifying the MapData file is a lot more a pain in the ass than a WarInfo file.

Now I tried to get clarification on what the WarInfo surprise attacks missions even do or if my conclusion is even correct, but I've been met with utter silence.


The odd thing about your game is that the British hold Singapore so you should be able to surprise attack there.

Your game is pretty heavily modified. One thing I noticed in your MapData file is that your surprise attacks are named after the provinces, not the ports. I'm not sure what else is there that's different. We definitely need a dev to come and define what exactly triggers a surprise attack so then you can then track down exactly what your issue is.

[gildeddawn]

Dec 10, 2020 0:32:04 GMT -6 dia said:

Nov 20, 2020 2:05:14 GMT -6 gildeddawn said:

I am glad I did, because after numerous attempts, including trying different iterations involving varying countries and possessions, I have reached the conclusion that the game simply will not initiate a surprise attack using a surprise attack battle defined in the MapData file. It is restricted only to the surprise attack defined in the WarData file, and if the opposing country loses the possession to which that battle is attached, Weihaiwei in the case of Britain, then you can no longer get a surprise attack against that country.

That's odd because in the past I was trying to mod another nation to use the surprise attack feature, Italy against France, and came to the conclusion that it was the MapData file, not the WarInfo that governed all surprise attacks. Nothing I did could get the WarInfo file to trigger a surprise attack. Based on the MapData file and my experience playing Japan, I came to the conclusion that Singapore, Soerabaja, Manila, Saint Jaques, Cam Ranh Bay, Fort Bayard, Hong Kong, Haikou, Vladivostok, Weihaiwei, Tsingtau, Port Arthur, Chenampo, and Pearl Harbor are the only ports capable of being surprise attacked. These are individual missions defined in in the MapData file and listed by port name not the province they belong to. According to the WarInfo file, The Philippines, Kiautschou Bay, Weihaiwei, Kwang-Chou-Wan, and the Liaotung Peninsula are the only provinces with defined surprise attacks, however I know for a fact these aren't the only ones as I've surprised attacked Singapore before. So if your enemy doesn't hold one of these ports, you're SoL and modifying the MapData file is a lot more a pain in the ass than a WarInfo file.

Now I tried to get clarification on what the WarInfo surprise attacks missions even do or if my conclusion is even correct, but I've been met with utter silence.


The odd thing about your game is that the British hold Singapore so you should be able to surprise attack there.

Your game is pretty heavily modified. One thing I noticed in your MapData file is that your surprise attacks are named after the provinces, not the ports. I'm not sure what else is there that's different. We definitely need a dev to come and define what exactly triggers a surprise attack so then you can then track down exactly what your issue is.

I only changed the names of the surprise attacks to the provinces names after I had already concluded, after significant testing, that surprise attacks would not work with the surprise attacks named as they are by default. I knew that surprise attacks in the WarData file must be named after the province they are attached to, not the port, or they won't work, so I figured maybe it was the same for attacks in the MapData file. After testing it both ways, it didn't seem to make a difference, but I never bothered changing it back.

I do seem to remember that surprise attacks from the MapData file worked in Rule the Waves 1, but I haven't been able to get one so far in Rule the Waves 2. Perhaps it is something about the changes made to accommodate carriers; I don't know. I can only speculate. What I do know is that in the game right now, surprise attacks from the MapData file do not seem to work.