Question on Treaty Limits

[powelly999]

Hi, I'm currently playing a game in which a disarmament conference has been called giving a limit of ships no more than 12,000 tonnes and no bigger than 10" guns. The game prevents me from building my Theseus-Class Heavy Cruiser understandably as it is 14,000 tonnes. Now when I look at the almanac, I can see that Germany is building quite evidently ships greater than 12,000 tonnes. Am I missing something with the conference mechanics, or is this a bug as I'm not sure. I've also noticed that the Italians are doing the exact same thing. Some clarification would be greatly appreciated!

 

[janxol]

You can cheat on the treaties by 10% of ship tonnage (if you're not democratic I THINK), so for 12k treaty limit you can build a 13 200 ton ships.

[noshurviverse]

Per the manual:

Liberal democracies must adhere strictly to the treaty. Other nations may 'cheat' by up to 10% of the displacement. No cheating is possible on the main calibre.

[charliezulu]

The limitation for Liberal Democracies is ironic, given how France and the US cheated hard on treaty limits.

Yeah, sure, Richelieu is totally LNT-compliant as designed.

[gurudennis]

Jun 8, 2021 20:42:36 GMT -6 charliezulu said:

The limitation for Liberal Democracies is ironic, given how France and the US cheated hard on treaty limits.

Yeah, sure, Richelieu is totally LNT-compliant as designed.

Now, now, we all know that thousands of tons worth of new equipment invented after the treaty doesn't count against the treaty limits. And who said standard displacement should include a full load of fuel and ammunition? Please. Certainly not the treaty. No siree.

[aeson]

Jun 8, 2021 20:42:36 GMT -6 charliezulu said:

The limitation for Liberal Democracies is ironic, given how France and the US cheated hard on treaty limits.

Yeah, sure, Richelieu is totally LNT-compliant as designed.

All of the signatory powers cheated on the treaties to some degree, but generally speaking the three democracies adhered significantly closer to the treaty limits than Japan and Italy (and Germany, since it's theoretically bound by the Washington and London treaties per the terms of the Anglo-German Naval Agreement) did.

[wowzery]

I find the treaties interesting. Playing from 1900 as Germany, 1902 and a treaty was done, 20k tons, 12" ,main guns, and for 17 years. Most nations had to scrap their shiny new 13" main gun battleships they were building.
But 17 years, this is going to be interesting for battleship design considering the historical advances that were done at the time. Just going to keep my tech up, and wait then build a massive battleship upon the treating ending.

[hawkeye]

Jun 30, 2021 7:20:34 GMT -6 wowzery said:

I find the treaties interesting. Playing from 1900 as Germany, 1902 and a treaty was done, 20k tons, 12" ,main guns, and for 17 years. Most nations had to scrap their shiny new 13" main gun battleships they were building.
But 17 years, this is going to be interesting for battleship design considering the historical advances that were done at the time. Just going to keep my tech up, and wait then build a massive battleship upon the treating ending.

Of course, this assumes you can keep the peace for those 17 years (in case you don't know, once war breaks out, those kind of treaties are null and void)

[aeson]

It is also worth bearing in mind that 20,000 tons is more than sufficient for a decent pre- or semi-dreadnought and at least adequate for an early dreadnought.

[wlbjork]

!902 isn't exactly terrible either. Imagine getting that treaty around 1925!

[wowzery]

Jul 1, 2021 1:35:20 GMT -6 wlbjork said:

!902 isn't exactly terrible either. Imagine getting that treaty around 1925!

Yeah, probably more like the treaty I had in the last game.  12k tons, and max 8" guns.  Don't know any battleship post 1900 that could do that one.  Then get the penalty for not having 9" main guns on the armored cruisers.  Nothing like adding a challenge.