Pilot training capacity?

[ck07]

I keep getting a message that I "don't have enough pilot training capacity for carrier aircrews." I tried more land airbase capacity, more active land-based planes (with carrier-capable selected), and re-activating and re-populating mothballed converted CVLs. None of these moved either the reported requirement or the reported training capacity.

How do I fix this?

[jwsmith26]

ck07 , your carrier pilot training capacity is based on the total air capacity of all the aircraft carriers (CVs and CVLs) that you currently have in service. The air capacity of carriers in reserve and mothballed are counted for this purpose. Land-based air capacity is not counted. The air capacity of carriers under construction is not counted.

If I recall correctly, the pilot training capacity is equal to the air capacity of all eligible carriers plus 50%. So, if you have two carriers, each with an air capacity of 60 aircraft, the maximum number of carrier-trained pilots you can have would be 180. This limitation can be a real irritation if you are rapidly expanding your carrier fleet and you want to have trained squadrons ready when the new carriers are commissioned.

The way I deal with this is to build cheap training carriers that have almost no defensive weapons and are just fast enough to qualify as carriers. I have no intention of allowing these carriers to enter combat (but that doesn't always work), they are simply there to train new carrier-capable squadrons. To this end, during wartime I place these carriers in reserve or even mothball them. While on reserve they can continue to train squadrons. However, on rare occasions, the game has pulled these carriers into battles even when they were in reserve status. 

The cheapest way to build one of these training carriers occurs when your nation is at war. First build a large AMC (only buildable during wartime). This takes 4 months. As soon as the AMC commissions, convert it to a carrier. Don't wait, the AMC will be decommissioned if the war ends unexpectedly, however, as long as you begin the conversion before the war ends the conversion to a carrier will continue, even if the war ends. As mentioned above, this carrier is not expected to engage in combat so its equipment should be minimal.

[Deleted]

RtW3 definitelly needs a "school ship" status for ships.

[aeson]

Jun 7, 2022 11:13:48 GMT -6 @pavelsvt said:

RtW3 definitelly needs a "school ship" status for ships.

What do you think a "school ship" status would give you that putting the ship into mothballs or the reserve doesn't already do?

[Deleted]

Jun 7, 2022 13:59:06 GMT -6 aeson said:

Jun 7, 2022 11:13:48 GMT -6 @pavelsvt said:

RtW3 definitelly needs a "school ship" status for ships.

What do you think a "school ship" status would give you that putting the ship into mothballs or the reserve doesn't already do?

A chance to improve a new ship´s crew faster, or more, or a small chance to improve crew quality of an already existing ship.

[ck07]

Jun 4, 2022 11:07:33 GMT -6 jwsmith26 said:

ck07 , your carrier pilot training capacity is based on the total air capacity of all the aircraft carriers (CVs and CVLs) that you currently have in service. The air capacity of carriers in reserve and mothballed are counted for this purpose. Land-based air capacity is not counted. The air capacity of carriers under construction is not counted.

If I recall correctly, the pilot training capacity is equal to the air capacity of all eligible carriers plus 50%. So, if you have two carriers, each with an air capacity of 60 aircraft, the maximum number of carrier-trained pilots you can have would be 180. This limitation can be a real irritation if you are rapidly expanding your carrier fleet and you want to have trained squadrons ready when the new carriers are commissioned.

The way I deal with this is to build cheap training carriers that have almost no defensive weapons and are just fast enough to qualify as carriers. I have no intention of allowing these carriers to enter combat (but that doesn't always work), they are simply there to train new carrier-capable squadrons. To this end, during wartime I place these carriers in reserve or even mothball them. While on reserve they can continue to train squadrons. However, on rare occasions, the game has pulled these carriers into battles even when they were in reserve status. 

The cheapest way to build one of these training carriers occurs when your nation is at war. First build a large AMC (only buildable during wartime). This takes 4 months. As soon as the AMC commissions, convert it to a carrier. Don't wait, the AMC will be decommissioned if the war ends unexpectedly, however, as long as you begin the conversion before the war ends the conversion to a carrier will continue, even if the war ends. As mentioned above, this carrier is not expected to engage in combat so its equipment should be minimal.

Cute. Does this also provide faster pilot replacement in wartime?

[aeson]

Jun 14, 2022 19:12:20 GMT -6 ck07 said:

Cute. Does this also provide faster pilot replacement in wartime?

If I am not mistaken, being over the limit slows things down but being under it does not speed things up. You can, however, transfer depleted squadrons away from your front-line carriers and replace them with full-strength squadrons from your second-line or 'training' carriers.

[jwsmith26]

Here's some more information about training squadrons.

As aeson mentions, having training carriers doesn't speed up the process, but it does allow you to train squadrons while your new carriers are being built so you will have good or veteran squadrons available when those carriers commission. If you wait to create the new squadrons until the new carrier is available, you'll be looking at something like 3 years before those squadrons are trained up to veteran status.

All bases will train raw recruits equally fast until they reach an experience rating of "Fair". This is the case regardless of whether they are carriers or land bases, and in reserve or active. After a squadron reaches an experience level of low-level fair (typically requiring about 7 or 8 months), the squadron will only continue to gain additional experience if the airbase or carrier is active, as opposed to in reserve. A squadron will never advance beyond a low-level fair rating if the base it is stationed at is in reserve. In addition, if more experienced squadrons are stationed at a base in reserve the squadron's experience will steadily drop until it reaches a low-level fair rating. It takes about 18 months for a mid-level veteran squadron to drop to an experience level of low-level fair when stationed at a base in reserve (or in the reserve pool), but even staying at such a base for a few months will result in significant loss of experience.

On the other hand, if a squadron is stationed on an active carrier, or at an active air base, experience will continue to improve until it achieves a mid-level "Veteran" level. Squadrons based on carriers will get there slightly faster. Squadrons in training during peace will take a long time to reach veteran status. It will generally take 3 or more years of constant active training during peacetime to train a newly created squadron up to veteran status. That means that if you want your new carrier to be equipped with veteran squadrons, you will need to begin training them about the same time you lay down your new carrier.

Achieving a level of experience above veteran cannot generally be achieved except in war conditions, however a higher level of experience can be maintained during peacetime if you keep such squadrons stationed on active carriers or bases.

Of course, if you don't train in advance, you can always transfer veteran squadrons out of older carriers into those shiny new carriers, but that just means your older carriers will be stuck with the raw recruits.

[ck07]

Jun 15, 2022 11:21:57 GMT -6 jwsmith26 said:

....

All bases will train raw recruits equally fast until they reach an experience rating of "Fair". This is the case regardless of whether they are carriers or land bases, and in reserve or active. After a squadron reaches an experience level of low-level fair (typically requiring about 7 or 8 months), the squadron will only continue to gain additional experience if the airbase or carrier is active, as opposed to in reserve. A squadron will never advance beyond a low-level fair rating if the base it is stationed at is in reserve. In addition, if more experienced squadrons are stationed at a base in reserve the squadron's experience will steadily drop until it reaches a low-level fair rating. It takes about 18 months for a mid-level veteran squadron to drop to an experience level of low-level fair when stationed at a base in reserve (or in the reserve pool), but even staying at such a base for a few months will result in significant loss of experience.

On the other hand, if a squadron is stationed on an active carrier, or at an active air base, experience will continue to improve until it achieves a mid-level "Veteran" level. Squadrons based on carriers will get there slightly faster. Squadrons in training during peace will take a long time to reach veteran status. It will generally take 3 or more years of constant active training during peacetime to train a newly created squadron up to veteran status. That means that if you want your new carrier to be equipped with veteran squadrons, you will need to begin training them about the same time you lay down your new carrier.

Achieving a level of experience above veteran cannot generally be achieved except in war conditions, however a higher level of experience can be maintained during peacetime if you keep such squadrons stationed on active carriers or bases.

Of course, if you don't train in advance, you can always transfer veteran squadrons out of older carriers into those shiny new carriers, but that just means your older carriers will be stuck with the raw recruits.

This is all very helpful, and explains where my one "Expert" squadron went. Leaves only one Q I can think of: Can you exploit this by training a very small squadron, then expanding it when war threatens?

(From a historical point of view I can see both objections to such an exploit and justifications for it, although the latter worked more by spreading the veterans of one squadron to form the nuclei of 2 or several. But AFAIK RTW does not have a way to split a squadron.)

[jwsmith26]

Adding new aircraft to an existing squadron will dilute the squadron with inexperienced recruits resulting in a reduction in experience for the squadron. Losses to expert squadrons can quickly reduce their elite status, as can placing such a squadron in reserve. Allowing a squadron to be broken up and used as a seed for several new squadrons was discussed but did not make the cut.

[ck07]

Ah. One could make a case for a slightly better result than straight line dilution, but not surprised the designers did not take that on.

Leaves me with the problem of saving $ in peacetime without having to create new Poor-quality squadrons at mobilization. Do you know by what ratios you can dilute a Good or Veteran squadron and still get not worse than Fair? (I get that answers may be ranges because each pilot training level spans some range of values for "Experience=".)

[arminpfano]

Jun 16, 2022 8:22:41 GMT -6 jwsmith26 said:

Adding new aircraft to an existing squadron will dilute the squadron with inexperienced recruits resulting in a reduction in experience for the squadron. Losses to expert squadrons can quickly reduce their elite status, as can placing such a squadron in reserve. Allowing a squadron to be broken up and used as a seed for several new squadrons was discussed but did not make the cut.

Hm, I regularely reduce veteran squadrons in peacetime to the minimum size of four planes to save money. When I equip the squadrons with additional planes the veteran status is kept.

[jwsmith26]

Jul 15, 2022 12:57:19 GMT -6 arminpfano said:

Jun 16, 2022 8:22:41 GMT -6 jwsmith26 said:

Adding new aircraft to an existing squadron will dilute the squadron with inexperienced recruits resulting in a reduction in experience for the squadron. Losses to expert squadrons can quickly reduce their elite status, as can placing such a squadron in reserve. Allowing a squadron to be broken up and used as a seed for several new squadrons was discussed but did not make the cut.

Hm, I regularely reduce veteran squadrons in peacetime to the minimum size of four planes to save money. When I equip the squadrons with additional planes the veteran status is kept.

A veteran status is not a unitary value, it is a relatively broad category that encompasses several levels of experience. It is quite possible to reduce your experience and still retain a veteran status. This is especially possible if you are adding a small number of additional planes to a squadron. The change in experience may not be enough to cross the threshold that would place you in the "Good" category, but the lower experience level will still have an impact during combat.   

[oldpop2000]

Private airfields were used for primary pilot training during WW2; might be interesting to provide that during a war. It was also used during pre-war periods.

www.historylink.org/File/10110