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Post by cwemyss on Mar 11, 2023 14:42:08 GMT -6
CALM SUCCEEDS THE STORM IN ST. PETERSBURG MANY OF THE STRIKERS RETURNING TO WORK REVOLUTION IS NEAR, MINISTER IS TOLD ST. PETERSBURG — To-morrow, on the occasion of the one hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the founding of the University, student riots are expected. General Volkoff, the new Governor of Moscow, states that he will adopt the same repressive measures there as are in effect in St. Petersburg. Troops have ceased using firearms. Cossacks are clearing the streets with whips. Prince Sviatopolk-Mirsky has resigned his position as Interior Minister, but his resignation has not yet been accepted as it is difficult to find a substitute. The position has been offered to Prince Obolensky, who has declined it. Prince Obolensky is a member of the Imperial Council and was formerly a Deputy-Governor of Warsaw. Sergei Witte also was offered the post but refused it. Most of the victims of Sunday’s massacre are being buried to-night, but many families cannot obtain any information as to the fate of relatives. Sympathizers Parade in Geneva Revolutionist and Socialist meetings are being held here every night, and there are processions over which the red flag waves. No serious disturbances have occurred. Private despatches relate that the frontier police are intimidated, and access to Russia is easy now even for those without passports. Many revolutionists are taking advantage of this. Subscription lists in favor of the strikers have been started by Socialist papers, which attack the Russian bureaucracy violently. Aristocracy Leaving Town All those who are able to do so are now leaving St. Petersburg. The aristocratic part of the population is betaking itself either abroad or to its estates in the country. It is difficult to say how long the strike will last, as the strikers have been furnished with money from abroad, chiefly from England. A part of this money has been seized by the Government and confiscated. The correspondent of the “Berliner Tageblatt” at St. Petersburg maintains that Father Gapon was wounded on Sunday. He asserts that he was present and saw the priest struck down. The Government, trying to remove the impression caused by the wounding of the priests, is spreading a report that they are not really students but police in disguise. It is further denied that the Tsar and the Imperial family have any intention of leaving Tsarskoe Selo. In many towns in Russia the portrait of the Tsar has been removed from public buildings to prevent its being injured. On the other hand, the portrait of the Tsaritsa is everywhere respected.
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Post by cwemyss on Mar 11, 2023 14:43:43 GMT -6
In the interest of proper attribution... this is a borrowed news article from the International Herald Tribune, Jan 26 1905
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Post by cwemyss on Mar 12, 2023 10:09:14 GMT -6
December 20, 1908 – Naval Station Norfolk, Virginia Vice Admiral Newberry greeted The Chairman in the office antechamber, an aide taking the Admiral of the Navy’s coat and gloves as the Chairman scraped mud from his shoes. “Good morning, Oliver,” he boomed, “Miserable weather, and this entire base appears to be constructed of mire and scrap wood.” “Sir,” responded the Atlantic Fleet commander as they moved into his office, “This is still a pretty bare-bones station.” He gestured to the view out his window, across Hampton Roads to Fort Monroe three miles distant. “We have plenty of room to grow, but we’ve spent more time and money on piers and workshops than on sidewalks and offices.” “Well,” answered The Chairman, “Now that the fighting is done, maybe we can all have a respite to get the small things squared away.” “Agreed. Coffee?” Newberry offered, holding out a cup to The Chairman before continuing “It’s fairly unbelievable how fast the Russians fell apart.” “Yes. It didn’t take them long to go from student massacres, to machine-gunning crowds in the streets, to whole regiments ignoring orders and entire ships mutinying. I thought when the Tsar stepped down it might calm things, but the provisional government lasted all of two weeks. The entire place was in wretched state before the war but the year-long blockade sealed it.” “Very likely,” Newberry answered. “Has anyone figured out what a ‘Soviet’ is?” “Apparently it means council or assembly. They claim it’s a group of workers spontaneously gathered to assert the rights of the people. But we’ve seen a lot of signs that there’s a half a dozen rough characters guiding the whole thing. It’ll be interesting to see which of them comes out on top when the dust settles.” “It’s made the negotiations to end the war a complete mess,” continued The Chairman. “By the time we found someone with the authority to strike a deal, our troops and the Norwegians had reached the outskirts of Vyborg and Murmansk. The Russians wanted Finland back, the Norwegians said no way in hell, and the Finns weren’t too keen either. The Russians accepted neutrality but I wouldn’t bet on it lasting. Once they get their house in order they’re going to want some space between St Petersburg and a hostile border.” “I’m sure you’re right,” Newberry agreed. “We still have bases available in Norway, though we’ve been discreetly asked to reduce our visible presence. With Finland being independent, the Norwegian parliament is pushing ‘Scandinavia for the Scandinavians’. But their Navy has also been very clear that they’d welcome us back if the need arises. And we’re going to build things up a little in Iceland, we’ve already moved a battery from Alabama to Reykjavik.” “Yes, between the bases and the naval cuts we forced on the Russians, we’re in very good shape in Europe,” said The Chairman. He chuckled, “Their dockyard workers destroyed a couple capital ships before negotiations had even started. Asia’s going to need some attention though. Sakhalin is little better than a penal colony, most of the residents are completely indifferent to our presence. But the Japanese have wanted it back since seventy-five. Between them and the mess of competing interests in the Yellow Sea, I think we’re going to need to station a strong squadron in the area.” “Yes sir,” Newberry “With the exception of one parade and a slew of dinners, I’ve spent most of my effort since the peace working through redeployments to the Pacific. It takes an awfully long time and a heck of a lot of coal to move squadrons from Norway to Pearl or Manila. Do you know who’s going to command the Pacific Fleet?” “We offered it to Quimby but he’s choosing to retire,” answered the Chairman. “I completely understand, and he’s certainly earned it. I’ll probably call him in for General Board meetings from time to time. Most likely Matthewsen, he’s been stationed in Asia and the Pacific for most of the last decade. It’ll rankle a few more senior folks, but he makes the most sense.” Newberry waved a hand, “Most of our senior admirals don’t want to be bothered standing up a new command anyway, there’s a lot more work than they desire. Has San Francisco rebuilt enough for a fleet headquarters?” he asked.
“They’ve made amazing progress since the quake. The fires never quite reached China Basin, and Union Iron Works was mostly spared.” The Chairman continued with a laugh, “It’ll probably look like this place, for a little while. A lot of mud and a lot of construction.”
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Post by prophetinreverse on Mar 12, 2023 13:06:05 GMT -6
Interesting. I’m rather surprised the US didn’t establish a rump White Russian state in Kamchatka entirely dependent on them as well. I seem to recall it being mooted a few times during 1919-1920.
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Post by cwemyss on Mar 12, 2023 14:21:57 GMT -6
Interesting. I’m rather surprised the US didn’t establish a rump White Russian state in Kamchatka entirely dependent on them as well. I seem to recall it being mooted a few times during 1919-1920. I thought about it... but my general rule of thumb is to spend only half the points allotted, and I wanted Iceland... it made more sense from a story standpoint, and kept me from being tied to the Baltic. That eliminated Kamchatka and Liaotung. I did some save editing to make Finland neutral, and when general tensions start rising again I'll flip it back to Russia. Edit: I didn't realize that had been kicked around IRL. Time for some more reading!
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Post by prophetinreverse on Mar 12, 2023 20:58:18 GMT -6
Interesting. I’m rather surprised the US didn’t establish a rump White Russian state in Kamchatka entirely dependent on them as well. I seem to recall it being mooted a few times during 1919-1920. I thought about it... but my general rule of thumb is to spend only half the points allotted, and I wanted Iceland... it made more sense from a story standpoint, and kept me from being tied to the Baltic. That eliminated Kamchatka and Liaotung. I did some save editing to make Finland neutral, and when general tensions start rising again I'll flip it back to Russia. Edit: I didn't realize that had been kicked around IRL. Time for some more reading! I mean I don’t know how seriously the idea was considered - could have just been one junior staffer speculating for all I know.
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Post by cwemyss on Mar 17, 2023 10:03:23 GMT -6
August 18, 1909 – The Hague, Netherlands Vice Admiral (Retired) George Quimby ambled the path along Hofvigjver, hands behind his back, looking occasionally across the pond to the Binnenhof. His straw boater and tan suit made a stark contrast with the high starched collar of his compatriot’s summer dress uniform or the third man’s heavy gold epaulettes and stiff double-breasted jacket. Quimby knew that if he kept walking he could reach The Hague’s small port in about an hour. Maybe he should leave this all behind and take up fishing, he mused. “I canna say this strongly enough,” continued Royal Navy Vice Admiral Harold Campbell, his highland accent still giving Quimby trouble after six weeks together. “The Germans are going to get everything they want. In a year we’ll either be back here doing this all again. Or we’ll be staring at each other across a North Sea blockade.” “You may be back,” Quimby answered sardonically, “I have house on Penobscot Bay and my wife is thoroughly sick of me being in Europe. If what we agree to here doesn’t stick, I’ll leave it to you gentlemen to sort out.” With a heavy sigh, he added, “One way or the other.” Quimby had been called out of retirement, answering the new President’s request to lend his experience, name, and reputation to the American mission to the Hague conference. President Roosevelt had suggested a conference five years earlier but the long war with Russia had delayed it. Quimby had recommended holding a separate conference in Washington specific to naval issues, but the new administration had bowed to diplomatic pressure and agreed to this summit. As Campbell pointed out, Germany had largely steered the discussion along their preferred lines, with Italy enthusiastically agreeing to every proposal. France had moderated somewhat, as had Japan, and even half a year after their revolution no one could say for certain that the Russian ministers actually represented the government in power this week. The rest of the powers, major and minor, fell in line with the peaceful German rhetoric and promises of a bright, cooperative future. The American and British delegations apparently stood alone in wondering what the bombastic Kaiser was planning, and how this squared with Germany’s enthusiastic spending over the past half decade. With the new administration in Washington almost desperate for peace after three years of hard-fought war with the Russians, Quimby and the other American military representatives were left largely on the sidelines as the diplomats drove to an agreement. The trio reached a crossing path, and Campbell took his leave, allowing the two Americans to talk more freely. “Admiral,” started Captain Hendrickson after a moment, “you know that he’s probably right.” “I do, Chris,” he answered. “The only ones with docks larger than the proposed limit? The Brits and ourselves. The only ones building ships with fourteen-inch guns? The same.” “The French will lose one ship,” responded Hendrickson. “Yes, and they just laid it down a couple months ago. New Jersey is nearly finished, and she’ll go to the scrapyard.” “True,” Hendrickson allowed, “and I believe the Brits will lose seven or eight ships, some of them as close to completion as New Jersey.” “Have you seen drawings of the Kentucky class?” Quimby asked. “No, sir, that’s not been my department. I’ve been in Europe so long that my position is about as far as a Captain can get from sea duty.” “She would have been a monster,” Quimby said. “Probably too big for reason, if we’re honest. Ten fourteen inch guns, just a hair shy of twenty-seven thousand tons. And a thousand officers and men.” Hendrickson let out a low whistle, and the two men walked in silence for a moment. While the Secretary of State hadn’t seen fit to include Hendrickson in the party attending the Hague Conference, Quimby had invited him had come to after a conversation with Admiral Newberry. Hendrickson’s skills in diplomacy and his familiarity with the shifting European landscape had proved indispensable, even if the diplomats had largely ignored his knowledge of naval matters. “So what does our Navy do from here?” Quimby asked after a few minutes. “Well, sir,” Hendrickson started, “it hasn’t been a total disaster. We managed to kill the proposal to prohibit any new overseas fortifications so our projects in Iceland, Sakhalin, and the Philippines can continue. In fact, New Jersey’s guns will probably work pretty well for Corregidor.” He continued, “We talked about submarines for perhaps a couple hours, across the last month, and ultimately that came to nothing. We certainly haven’t put a lot of thought into how they’d be used in a war, and the boats we have now are barely able to leave sight of a friendly port, but I think there’s an opportunity there. And aviation may be a possibility as well. Quimby scoffed at the last. “As soon as someone can fly farther than we can see from a battleship mast, there may be a discussion there. You’re right about the rest though. This agreement hurts the British far more than it does us, and I can’t see it lasting two or three years before they go to war with Germany.”
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Post by cwemyss on Mar 17, 2023 10:20:16 GMT -6
Editor's notes: I forgot to grab a screenie of New Jersey's scrapping message, hence the weird font above. Wrapup from the end of the last war, via save editing: - Finland Neutral, as noted above - Scrapped most of the Russian major ships (2 BB, 3 BC) building at the time. I felt this fit with Russia's actual capital ship building between the 1917 revolution and.... the Kirov class in 1974. Heh. I assume as the game progresses they'll start up again. - Took two capital ships, one B and one CA, as war prizes ( War Reparations Ships). They're kinda garbage, but they'll fill out the ranks a bit. I'm forcing myself to do a rebuild, which I think would be realistic. Point of discussion, I'm open to input: I'd literally just spent $5.7M on developing the Kentucky class, then hit "next turn" and got the treaty. I like this treaty though... normally I've gotten something like "Max 12k tons, max 10-inch guns" so you can't build anything useable. This one's very different, so now I'm considering two paths: - First, a less-well-protected 13-inch/24k-ton BB, identical design and speed with smaller guns and thinner armor to fit on the 24k hull - Going all battlecruiser/fast BB. I can build a 12-inch/24k-ton BC with 25 knots speed.
I'm kinda leaning toward the latter... it sounds fun. Let me know what you think!!
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Post by cwemyss on Mar 17, 2023 11:55:50 GMT -6
Here's the competing designs: 21-knot/13-in Gun/10-in Belt21-knot/12-in Gun/11-in Belt25-knot/12-in Gun/9.5-in BeltAnd here's the "I wish I had 4 centerline turrets" version, a 12-inch gun tank.
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Post by zederfflinger on Mar 17, 2023 12:21:37 GMT -6
Britain really got hit hard by that treaty. Personally, I'd take the 25 knot design over the others, but the 12in gun/ 11in belt is my second choice if you don't want a fast ship right now.
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neel
New Member
Posts: 8
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Post by neel on Mar 18, 2023 3:10:56 GMT -6
Britain really got hit hard by that treaty. Personally, I'd take the 25 knot design over the others, but the 12in gun/ 11in belt is my second choice if you don't want a fast ship right now. I second this. Also if "other nations",(the Ai), uses these restrictions to introduce faster ships you dont want to be left behind in that race.
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Post by prophetinreverse on Mar 18, 2023 12:24:28 GMT -6
I think many things about your current predicaments:
1. Your 12” (Quality 0) guns are only marginally less effective than your 13” (Quality -1) guns and make up for it considerably in weight savings and cost, so I would throw out all the 13” designs and only consider the 12” ones. 2. We’re reaching the point in the game where accuracy and gun caliber is about to start dramatically improving in the coming years such that once the treaty expires in five years (or ten if it gets renewed), 10-12 gun 14”/15”/16” dreadnoughts that eat the previous models of battleship for breakfast are going to start getting laid down, with them coming off the slips by 1917. An upgraded 12” battle line isn’t going to be much more effective than the 12” battle line you already have. 3. The AI is about to build an absurd amount of cheap battle cruisers and lighter ships. 4. The US has a bonus for carrier research so getting the earliest, best jump on that is both good gameplay and historically accurate. 5. Ships are about to get a lot faster, especially once oil firing starts being researched in the next five years. 6. Torpedoes on capital ships are getting less useful since a capital ship can’t really close to torpedo range anymore without dying under a hail of high caliber shells. 7. The US led the way in developing the conning tower that makes Fort Knox look lightly defended, and for good reason: it’s so little extra weight between a 10” thick conning tower armor and 18” thick, however the latter saves ships from getting knocked out of action and spinning in circles for several minutes in battle.
Given all this, I think you really need to focus on designing 12” battlecruisers, and while the one 25 knot design is very good, I would like to see a 26 knot design with slightly less belt armor (and more conning tower armor). I would also like to channel my inner Jackie Fisher and request a 28-29 knot battle cruiser design with about 6” of armor just to A. Chase down the annoying AI light cruiser spam and B. Be easily convertible to carriers when the time comes .
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Post by cwemyss on Mar 18, 2023 15:43:23 GMT -6
So, that's pretty much where I came down. The 10x12/25-kt design has the same or better armor as most of my pre-dreds, at 6-8 kts faster. And with 8x or 10x13, even a 21-kt ship is barely better protected. (8x had single-barrel wings... desperate times). And everything I looked at was roughly the same price, 87-93M and a 30-month build time.
I thought about a mixed build, some 10x12/25 and some 10x12/21. The latter actually had pretty good protection, but against even quality -1 14" guns, it's tissue paper inside 12k yards... no real immunity zone. And a mixed build means paying the 6-10m "design study + first of class" bill twice.
Bottom line, at treaty end + 2.5 years these are second line ships, raiders/raider-chase/trade protection, and blockade/counter. Most of the world's cruisers are still 22-23 knots or slower, and i can't justify building thinly armored BCs as my main/only capital builds in hopes they'll get to just chase down opposing cruisers. They inevitably end up my only capital ships in a battleship engagement, so I'll live with 25 kts to get an extra bit of armor, at least for the first 4-6 units.
Side note, I (of course) discovered 4x-centerline turrets right after spending *this* class's design study $$. Otherwise I'd probably be building 8x12, 25-knot, fast(ish) battleships with 12" armor.
Next chapter hopefully tomorrow, to introduce the Valley Forge class. I may get to it tonight, but it doesn't seem likely.
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Post by cwemyss on Mar 18, 2023 15:46:52 GMT -6
Also.... it's about time in game for "we don't care what you choose, here's the Balkans" events. I doubt the treaty goes 6 years anyway.
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Post by prophetinreverse on Mar 18, 2023 19:27:44 GMT -6
Side note, I (of course) discovered 4x-centerline turrets right after spending *this* class's design study $$. Otherwise I'd probably be building 8x12, 25-knot, fast(ish) battleships with 12" armor. Next chapter hopefully tomorrow, to introduce the Valley Forge class. I may get to it tonight, but it doesn't seem likely. I’d just throw out the previous design study and scrap the newly laid down ships and start from scratch with those 4+ centerline turrets. The money lost is nothing compared to being able to keep the ships in service a year or two longer because they’re capable enough. Edit: And you can even get a good narrative chapter out of it - navies, especially the USN, regularly threw out nearly completed designs because the parameters changed at the last second, often accompanied by furious screaming matches and some poor captain or commander getting discharged over it as scapegoat.
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